Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Hearing Things LFR-1100's and assorted tests to be done

Judging from several needless comments made elsewhere by PSA a while ago directed at Axiom, it doesn't surprise me that they turned you down...

TAM

Tom (Ex-Lab) - PSA seems to have issues, but not sure what they are. Had they allowed me to purchase a subwoofer, here is what would have happened:

It would have been calibrated into the system, and real world listening tests along with accurate in room measurements taken. As PSA uses Eminence drivers - drivers which are very close to what we used at Chase Home Theater - it is highly likely they would have gotten a very good review, as it is equally likely PSA makes an excellent product.

The current system in our 4500 cubic foot theater is as follows:

Receiver - Marantz 7800
Main speakers - Axiom M3's
Center Channel - Axiom VP150 V.3
Surrounds: ACI Emerald On Wall
Subwoofer: SVS PC-2000

The SVS arrived about 2.5 hours ago. Unpacking and calibrating was a snap.

I am currently watching "The Avengers" Blu Ray.

Of particular interest is the subwoofer performance from the SVS and the center channel performance of the VP150.

Both are doing quite well. The SVS is powerful, deep and non boomy. As it's replacing a pair of EP800's, it has a tough job. Bass is deep and tight. Obviously, there is a lot more testing to do, but it's off to a great start.

The VP150 is replacing a $1400 Klipsch RC-64 II. Vocals are crystal clear from all seating positions, including well off axis. The scene at the beginning of The Avengers where Loki is talking to Thano's "lackey" is a tough test. Many center channels have a hard time making the vocals clear, but the VP150 was fantastic. Every word easily understood.

This is going to be a fun test - what can be done for under $2000 for 5.1 speakers.

I can't believe it!! This can't be the same VP150 that is so maligned elsewhere for its design & driver arrangement!!

It seems that a proper anechoic chamber can be helpful in designing a speaker that works just fine in the real world...

TAM

Last night, we watched "How To Train Your Dragon" and "The Walking Dead".

On How To Train Your Dragon, as with "The Avengers", no matter where one sat in the room, the VP150 was delivering crystal clear dialogue. Four different people mentioned how the dialogue was much better / easier to hear than it was with the Klipsch RC64 II.

The room is largely square - it's 25x24 feet, and used to be a two car garage. Because of it's shape, it's pretty easy to do some serious off axis listening - outside 30 degrees is available.

There is a lot more to do, but based on results of 4 movies plus "The Walking Dead", I think it would be an eye opener (pun intended) to have some blind testing done with people who demand that this VP150 cannot possibly sound good.

To the subwoofer ... The PC2000, so far, has yet to make any "bad noises", and this includes some tough scenes from "Dragon". Scenes that had our Outlaw LFM1-EX pair "chuffing" had no chuffing on the SVS. Keep in mind, this is comparing TWO LFM1-EX to the SVS. The large, 4 inch port in the SVS is doing its job.

Also keep in mind the LFM1-EX has been replaced by the Ultra X-12. The X-12 seems to have addressed some of these issues - may have to get one to test.

The LFM1-EX, even a single, bests the SVS in the mid bass (32-80 Hz) "slam" area.

Overall, I find the SVS to be a better performer, because at no time did it call attention to itself by making a "bad noise". This is a tough test for an $800 sub in a large room.

We should have the latest Omni Mic this week, and we can start posting response curves for both the PC2000 and the VP150 (on and off axis).

Gents - Here are two graphs of two center channel speakers taken at about 35 degrees off axis. This is with 1/6th octave smoothing, no room correction (Audyssey) applied. Keep in mind a 15 to 20 dB window in room is pretty common.

This is one speaker:



This is the other:

Thank you for all the time and effort that you put in to this hobby Craigsub.
I have been enjoying your comparisons for the last year or two that I've been here very, detailed and various.
I also have a SVS PB1000 and it out performs the other subs I've had.
I can chuff and fart them easy but never once on the PB1000, I like lots of Soul/Funk and Hip Hop.

This is how we chill from '93 till! (For Brendo)

The notch at 500hz is covered up by smoothing, but both have it so probably room/position related. Were these gated impulse measurements or pink noise. I'm trying to see how much "room" is being measured.

These are great to learn from!

Serenity - I had looked at 1/24th octave, 1/12th octave and 1/3rd octave (Stereophile uses 1/3rd in its measurements) and settled on 1/6th, as it normally considered the resolution at which we hear.

These are "ungated". Both center channels are posted as raw, in the room, curves. No Audyssey filters were applied.

The response differences are room related, but the exercise is not about measuring the room. The vast majority of rooms have more than a 15 dB "total window" .. or +/- 7.5 dB, in terms of a response curve with a speaker that has the normal +/- 3 dB response curve in an anechoic setting.

The idea that a room will add 4 dB in peaks and subtract 4 dB in nulls is not surprising, true?

In this case, one graph is +/- 6.5 dB off axis, and the other +/- 7 dB off axis. That's actually pretty good in room.

What are we looking for here?

Which speaker, in everyone's opinion, looks as if it has a superior off axis response for real world listening?

Brendo - Thanks for the kind words. This is a lot of fun for me - doing these tests. When the newest Omni Mic arrived yesterday, I was doing the "7 year old on Christmas morning" routine.

One cool feature is the DVD included, which allows sweeps on each channel individually. It is so much easier to use than was Gen 1.

Speaking of SVS - here is the response curve of the PC-2000 with Audyssey applied:



A couple of random thoughts on this - the Marantz 7008/7009/7010 allow for full Audyssey on the subwoofer while bypassing the mains. This is most useful, and "B" stock versions of these receivers can be had for under $1000.

And how cool is it that Axiom allows competitive comparisons of their products to other company's products? There are no "demands" on how I do this from Ian and his staff.