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Re: LFR-1100's and assorted tests to be done
craigsub #415112 10/20/15 05:10 PM
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" And how cool is it that Axiom allows competitive comparisons of their products to other company's products? There are no "demands" on how I do this from Ian and his staff. "

craig: That certainly dispells all of the myths, criticism & misinformation that has been spread elsewhere by a few vocal miscreants over the past few years. They must be disappointed...

TAM

Re: LFR-1100's and assorted tests to be done
craigsub #415118 10/20/15 09:00 PM
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I think the biggest doubt about the vp150 is the rumored varied response over a horizontal plane. One member here, who's opinion I trust, stated he had issues with dialogue at certain spots on his couch but not others. Can you report if there are any drastic changes in response over 5 degree horizontal increments. This test is great! The fact that you are doing is makes it better.

As far as the 2 plots, I can only assume they suggest similar capability and great off axis response. Usually the treble range rolls off the further off axis you get. These seem to be going strong. Can you post on axis response for comparison?

I could guess which is the vp150, but oh the horror if I'm wrong. laugh

Re: LFR-1100's and assorted tests to be done
AAAA #415120 10/20/15 10:57 PM
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This is not poking fun at the person whose opinion can be trusted. The people who have stated that they hear a problem at varying intervals have never done a blind listening test. Ask Floyd Toole about the power of suggestion. We read on certain forums how "this tweeter arrangement sucks, and will sound horrible off axis", and we are all susceptible to now hearing these issues.

Many of us remember the audio salesman standing before us, telling us what we should be hearing in a speaker ... "Notice how the female singer sounds like she's here?" ... and of course, we agree.

I have had several people in the room sit in different areas, moving during scenes, all without having a clue which center channel is on. Not one has reported any negative issues. To the contrary, each person hearing the VP150 has raved about it (along with the M3's with which it is paired).

I was, based on all these reports, EXPECTING to hear an issue. I have not. I have listened to several hours of tracks with the VP150, and it has not "suffered" any more when walking back and forth during various scenes than has the Klipsch RC 64 II.

ALL horizontally oriented center channels will have some variance in response as one pans across the room, it's unavoidable.

Let's put this in terms of having fun ... If we took the VP150 and 4 other center channels, and let people (who are certain of the terrible design of the VP150) listen to each, under blind conditions, for an hour, with each betting $1000 he can tell which is the VP150 under these blind conditions ... I would make a lot of money. smile

That being said, Axiom also makes two center channels that are more "traditional" ... the VP100 and VP160. Personally, I think the VP160 is the "coolest looking", but this is likely a bias of mine based years of being told that the "midrange / tweeter horizontal arrangement between two woofers" is the only way to go.

Re: LFR-1100's and assorted tests to be done
craigsub #415127 10/21/15 05:31 AM
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That is to cool that you have such good performance with the VP150. I my self got the 160 based on the supposed loss of off axis performance, But I couldn't be happier it's a monstrous beauty!!!

The M3 is a fantastic speaker. That's what I started with when I learned of Axiom. So much clean bass from something so small.
{totally out performed the Klipsch that my Axioms replaced} found out I don't like horns to shrill.

Thanks again for your efforts and the amount of detail put in for us forum heads.

Brendo

Re: LFR-1100's and assorted tests to be done
craigsub #415133 10/21/15 07:07 PM
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Hi Craig. Curious as to the distance from speaker to mic in the off axis tests. Also, just my opinion, but I think in a lot or real world situations, off axis seating can often be more than 35 degrees.


Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton
Re: LFR-1100's and assorted tests to be done
Ajax #415137 10/21/15 09:42 PM
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Jack - As you have been in out theater room several times, this should make sense to you ... the measurement was taken from the bar at the right side of the room.

This is about 3 feet to the right of the furthest seat to the right of our room.

35 degrees is a pretty extreme angle.

Re: LFR-1100's and assorted tests to be done
craigsub #415140 10/21/15 11:28 PM
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Following Dolby guidelines, 35 degrees places the listener a full chair outside the LCR width. Pretty far off axis I'd say.

Craig, do you think the VP150 easily bests the Klipsch, or is comparable in general performace?

Re: LFR-1100's and assorted tests to be done
AAAA #415142 10/22/15 12:14 AM
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Serenity - After doing some back and forth with the two center channels, it's a very close call. Both are quite articulate, and handle both macro and micro dynamics very well.

I have been doing a lot of back and forth to shake off the initial "low expectations contrasted to initial excellent results" of the VP150.

When one expects to be underwhelmed, sometimes, one is initially more impressed than one would normally be.

It was important to give the VP150 some additional time, and it's still delivering nicely.

Re: LFR-1100's and assorted tests to be done
craigsub #415144 10/22/15 03:10 AM
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I sit 8 feet away from the VP150 v2. It's just "ok". If I move 15" to the left or right on my couch, it sounds like someone threw a (much heavier) carpet over it. I can turn the center gain up 10dB and it still doesn't help. 15" is less than 10 degrees in my set-up.

How far is the VP150 from your MLP, Craig?


House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
Re: LFR-1100's and assorted tests to be done
Mojo #415145 10/22/15 03:28 AM
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Mojo - My usual listening position is 17 feet away from the center channel. I am watching a movie now in which the dialogue is measuring between 54 and 66 dB, and it's crystal clear.

What you are describing is highly unlikely in a properly operating VP150 unless your room is really doing a number on the speaker. Keep in mind the crossover is 2700 Hz. Run a 2700 Hz sinewave in your system, and it is a very high pitch.

Even if the tweeters were disconnected, it should not sound like a "heavy drape" is over the speaker.

You should consider sending your speaker to Axiom for testing.

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