Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion The Water Cooler Heading to CEDIA tomorrow

CEDIA REPORT POST #7

So I didn't hear them, but dang this is a sexy looking speaker:


This booth was just cool:


So I head back to the JBL Synthesis demo area, and get ready to wait in line. I find out that they are doing a "special" demo and it might be a little bit. I go to the other side of the booth and after a few minutes, *this guy* walks out with about 4 other people, including at least 1 of his minions. I am not naming names because if I do, then this thread will just get pestered by his other minions. It was crazy seeing how some people acted like he was the worlds most amazing person. I'm talking about the guy in the middle.


Here is another shot. I was trying to be in stealth mode as I didn't want him to realize that someone was taking his picture and have it boost his inflated ego. I just happened to get this funny look on his face. He was more "you aren't worthy of talking to me" before and after this shot.


So anyway, I make it into the demo that sat a LOT more than the 5 or so people that were in there for his "special" demo.

These folks have the most speakers out of any setup. They have it set for a dedicated Atmos, or DTS:X (notice the *or*), or Auro 3D. They were using 14 base level speakers, 11 height speakers, and 4 subs. The demo was loud, and my gosh were the speakers PAINFULLY "bright." Ears wanting to bleed just so that the blood clots could block the sound type of bright.

They played a wide mix of their own demo material, and were the only ones to demo all 3 of the sound formats. They too played the DTS:X Cymatics video.


Next up was the Sony booth. This booth had a long line all day, but at this point, it is getting later, and I have an "AVS Forum" demo at Epson at 5:00 to get to. Sony was demoing their new 4K, HDR, laser projector. It was throwing a massive 240" diagonal image and it...looked...AWESOME. Nice and bright, lots of contrast, super high resolution. Wow wow wow. No price tag was given, and honestly, like most of this stuff, I didn't get model numbers. Just know that this sucker has to be majorly expensive.

So then I hop almost right next door to the Epson booth and see some people from AVS that I've known or known about for several years. I even was recognized (by face, not name badge) by one of the AVS sales guys. Crazy since I've only bought like 2 things from them ever, and the last was my JVC projector 4 years ago.

So here we demo their laser projector, and it was nice, but it was 1080p and nowhere near as bright as the Sony. Then again, this price tag was around $8000 MSRP, so probably a tiny fraction of the cost. It looked good for sure, and Epson was bragging about how not only do they have XXX white lumens, but that they have the exact lumen level for colors. I don't know how unique that it, but the picture looked like a great 1080p projector.

The reason that we were given that Epson isn't in the 4k market yet, or how they aren't "bleeding edge" is an obvious one, but we heard this straight from their V.P. of Marketing. They basically shoot to have products for the "90%" and leave the bleeding edge 10% to others until technology gets cheaper, and then they try to beat their competition with better implementations at a lower price point.

My last picture is of some of the swag I got.
My wife likes those cloth bags, so I picked up a few (there are more "Dish" ones inside the Dish bag that you see).
Moving to the right, there is a NHT Speaker t-shirt, the 2015 CEDIA Show Book, a deck of cards, some pens and small tools, a couple of stuffed Dish "Joeys", the DTS (including DTS:X) and Atmos demo discs, a fabric Atmos "sticker" (I thought it was a drink coaster), the James Loudspeaker flyer that showed their speaker layouts, a ton a magazines, oh and after the Epson demo, everyone from the AVS forums got an Epson Runsense SF-110 watch. These suckers have GPS and Bluetooth in them, and tie in to a fitness app. Online they sell for $140 from Epson, or $170 everywhere else. Not bad.

CEDIA REPORT POST #8
OK, now for the DTS:X stuff. I posted this over on AVS in their DTS:X thread, so I am just going to copy and past it, and another post (or two) here:

Super quick DTS:X update from CEDIA today.

I heard a few demos from some really nice setups.

Long story short:
1) DTS:X sounds pretty much like Atmos. I like Atmos, so that is fine by me.
2) DTS:X is currently slated for a January 1st, 2016 release of their final "code" for manufacturers to start sending out as updates. The demos heard today were using "engineering code" which is actually pre-beta anyway. It sounds really good, but I guess that they really want to knock this thing out of the park as a superior upmixer too, and the rendering code is still being tweaked to handle more unique installs.
3) DTS DOES have a recommended speaker layout. Maybe this has been covered here, but there is a layout that is different that Atmos' layout(s). Basically, Atmos likes having a "box" above and slightly outside the listening area with 4 speakers in the corners (generalizing this as I know that there is some flexibility here) and since seating areas are generally in the back half of a room, this makes a "box" in one half of a "rectangle" (the base 7 speakers at ear level). DTS would like to see things in concentric circles, meaning that the 4 overhead speakers would be more centered in the room, and the seating area for at least the primary listening area smack dab in the middle. That is for "ideal" conditions, but the person giving the information admits that most people have multiple rows of seats, don't want to sit that close, etc. A compromise is to bump the front most pair of overhead speakers closer to the screen/TV to help "fill the gap" between the front speakers and the side surrounds/front overheads. Of course, that screws with Atmos' configuration, so all of the demos but one today that had DTS going were in Atmos configurations. JBL had a setup with 14 base level speakers, 11 height speakers, and 4 subs. They used different speakers if they were playing Atmos, Auro3D, or DTS:X and were the only vendor demoing all three formats.

That is about it from my notes that I took on DTS:X today after several demos.

***Someone then posted that the DTS:X and Atmos layouts sounded like they were the same, so I posted this.***

Actually, it was pointed out as being "distinctly different" a couple of times.

Here is my quick version of what was shown in a slide at a tech demo:
Screen is on the left of this image, theoretically. Again, these are somewhat "generalizations" and I know that, I just want to repeat the information that was given to me today.


DTS:X setup was defined using "concentric circles" and one tech even mentioned "think about having a large compass on a piece of paper to draw two circles, one inside the other, and the point of the compass is right over the primary listener, sticking into their head."



To me, that is greatly impractical, and honestly it sounded really good in the Atmos layout in my opinion, so as far as *I* am concerned, an Atmos layout is the way to go to use the same speakers for Atmos and DTS:X, as we all really already knew, but again, just relaying information.

Oh, they also said that having your front 3 speaker on the base level arc'd is even more important with DTS:X.... Kicking the center speaker back even a good solid foot behind the left and right main speakers was talking about (someone asked about that specifically as to how far back was suggested).


***Someone then posted an image of a former DTS setup that had concentric circles - this predates DTS:X by a few years.***


I then posted this:
Yeah, even the guy at the D&M (Denon and Marantz) booth was talking about the concentric circles, but he too said that it is impractical to do it. The guy seems like an audio "perfectionist" so I am sure that it bugged him to some degree that their demo had the speakers in the same location instead of extending the front 2 height speakers forward more.

Oh well. We don't live in a room with circles and 1 listener smack dab in the middle (like in the picture above). I think that it is just a different thought process to both technologies. It was started that Dolby looks at it as 2 sets of "arcs." A "front to back" arc, and a "side to side" arc and they can place objects anywhere in those arcs or below. DTS looks at it as a symmetrical dome or hemisphere and too can place an audio object anywhere inside that dome or below it.

You could argue that both are really a set of arcs, or both are really domes. It is just a matter of where the side to side arcs are or if the dome is a little lopsided towards the back of the room or not.

Last year when Atmos was introduced at CEDIA 2014, one of the demos did a 9.1.4 setup where they had what typically were thought of as "front wides" on the side walls in line height wise with the surrounds, but half way, literally, between the side surround and the from speaker plane. They said that they were getting a lot better Atmos imaging by bridging that gap between the front 3 speakers and the "surround" and "overhead" speakers. I think that is why DTS likes the front overheads a bit more forward as it fills that gap so that it isn't such a jump from the front 3 to the next speaker that can help create the 3D space in front or overhead of the listener.

END OF CEDIA 2015 POSTS. Wow. I can't believe that I spent from about 11:35pm until now (1:15am) posting this stuff. I need to get to bed. Have to get up to catch a plane tomorrow morning to head home.

A NOTE:

I was searching YouTube for CEDIA videos from yesterday, and came across the following:

Current Audio's 'Axiom' named product

Hmm... Seems like a little bit of product name checking should have happened first.

...I think you broke the forum! Looks like you need to get a better camera as well

My first thought was "very few women and it looks like a geek convention"!

There were a few women at some of the booths, but I didn't want to snag their pictures just to share them for all of you as my wife probably wouldn't appreciate a few of them. Yes, though, mostly men in attendance.

As for the camera, it was more operator issue than any thing else. I do t do well when. It gets warm and not only were demo rooms in the afternoon, but I was a bit overdressed and hot. So my sweaty hands would smudge the lens on my cell phone and since I was sneaking some photos, I wasn't good about cleaning the lens or even standing still to snap pbotos. Maybe next time I will take my DSLR and act like I am supposed to be taking pictures.

Oh, and it isn't that you aren't permitted to take photos, but sometimes people get upset if they just happen to be I your photo, and I just didn't want to look like some crazy fanboy of anything. Of course, looking back, nobody probably would have cared. LOL

Very good explanation on the dts:x layout. Finally we have a concrete blueprint to plan around. Looks like my elongated ATMOS layout will work fine. Great news. Thanks as well for your impressions of the demos. If DTS is as robust as ATMOS on release there will be many upgrades in my future...... Yikes!

Great Job Nick. Hope you had a blast.

I think I just scrolled 12 miles. My scrolly finger needs a nap.

Holy crap on a Photoshop job Batman.

The first overly large pictures on a forum post that actually make the post entirely illegible.
Damn Nick.

Try this:
Free photo editing software
http://www.techradar.com/us/news/softwar...uld-try-1135489

No issues on my ipad with photo sizes.

Could be a browser issue Chess with resizing.