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#415302 - 11/04/15 08:52 PM Upgrade from M22 to M100, VP150 to VP180?
Brandon Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 11/04/15
Posts: 12
Hi folks,

Long time Axiom owner, first time poster.

I'm moving to a new house with (yay) a dedicated theater room, which is approx. 15x25 feet. I'm considering upgrading from my long-loved M22 bookshelf speakers to some M100 floor-standing, and also upgrading my VP150 to a VP180. I'm looking for feedback from anyone who's made a similar change, and an honest opinion if it's worth it.

My current setup...

Marantz SR7008 tuner in 7.1 mode, driving:

(2) M22 providing FL and FR
(1) VP150 center
(2) QS8 surrounds
(2) QS8 rear surrounds
(1) HSU VTF-2 MK4 subwoofer

I'm considering the floor-standing to replace the bookshelves to provide both improved stereo listening (meaning, music) as well as increased SPL and wider frequency response for movies. FWIW, my music preference is rock (running the whole spectrum) and, for the wife, some pop. My movie preference is basically everything but an emphasis on sci-fi and action.

I'm considering the VP180 for improved dialog, especially male voice -- more forward sounding, deeper sound, etc.

Is either upgrade a significant step in improving the features noted above, or am I good as-is? I'm quite happy now, but always looking to improve.

Thanks

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#415303 - 11/04/15 09:18 PM Re: Upgrade from M22 to M100, VP150 to VP180? [Re: Brandon]
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1627
Brandon - I have the Marantz 7008, and have used it to run M3's, M50's, a VP150, a VP180 and a pair of M100's.

Yes, it will be a big step forward moving to M100's and a VP180. The VP180 is an absolute beast of a center channel. It's in the same size cabinet as the M80's.

My only hesitation is this: You are going to want more subwoofage (yes, this is a word now).

The VTF-2 Mark 4 is a terrific sub, but trying to match what the 6 pack of 6.5 inch drivers will do in that 80-160 Hz range will tax your sub.

You might consider M80's, a VP180 and adding an EP800. You won't look back.
_________________________
Old enough to know better.

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#415304 - 11/04/15 09:46 PM Re: Upgrade from M22 to M100, VP150 to VP180? [Re: craigsub]
Brandon Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 11/04/15
Posts: 12
Great feedback craigsub, much appreciated!

I'll take your word for it on the "needs more subwoofage," but I have to admit I'm surprised. With my current setup, I run the sub at 30% power and it's almost too much. But, yes, it's big step up in drivers. I can always re-evaluate the sub later I suppose, or consider the M80 instead of M100. Decisions decisions. smile

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#415305 - 11/04/15 10:13 PM Re: Upgrade from M22 to M100, VP150 to VP180? [Re: Brandon]
nickbuol Offline
axiomite

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 5325
Loc: Marion, IA
Craig is spot on. Add the sub upgrade. I know what you are saying about running your sub at about 30% gain, which is actually about where most people that are looking for decent QUALITY LFE and bass leave it. It is the people that are just looking for "loud" that turn a subwoofer up. Adding a bigger and better sub doesn't mean that your sub isn't maybe good enough for the sound between say 50Hz to 80Hz, but you will really gain that tactile *feel* (pun intended) with a better sub. Again, not knocking your current sub, it is a very popular model from a good company, but you will get more of an overall upgrade by going M80 with a bigger and better sub than going with just the M100 (which are amazing, but trying to keep you within your budget).

(Case and point about the "30%" thing with the subs. I have a large 4cuft, 12" sub from another company that used to only make subs. The thing it tuned down to 18Hz. I have it in a 14 ft x 24 ft x 8 ft room and have it turned to about 25% of max and can pump out a LOT more clean bass, but... I decided to add a second sub, a sonically identical DIY sub also tuned down to 18Hz for my room because now I am still nowhere near the max of the subwoofer, but also have more air movement and more impact and I love it... I also have 2 subs to even out the bass response in the room, but that is a different story.)
_________________________
http://ht.buol.us
2-M60s, VP180, 8-M3s, SVS 20-39PCi, DIY Sub, 8-Shakers, JVC RS45, Anthem MRX-1120

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#415306 - 11/04/15 10:14 PM Re: Upgrade from M22 to M100, VP150 to VP180? [Re: Brandon]
craigsub Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 12/15/03
Posts: 1627
Brandon - The EP800 works incredibly well with a variety of speakers. There are 3 EP800's here, and I have actually run a pair with a VP150 and a pair of M3's, and everyone who heard the system was astonished.

A lot of this comes down to your ultimate budget.

I can tell you that once you experience an EP800 in your system, you will not want anything less. In the Outlet, the M80's are $1040 less than the M100's. The EP800 is $2480 ... so it would be a net $1440 more for M80's/EP800 than a pair of M100's.

The question only you can answer is how important is that $1440 in your purchase decision?

In regards to the Hsu ... "30%" is just where the gain control is. It does not mean you are only using 30 percent of the unit's ability to deliver SPL.

A pair of M100's and a VP180 would be a large step up ... and you could easily run them as large, with the Hsu augmenting the deep bass, and have one terrific system. Maybe, if you need more bass, you can add it later.
_________________________
Old enough to know better.

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#415307 - 11/04/15 10:58 PM Re: Upgrade from M22 to M100, VP150 to VP180? [Re: nickbuol]
Brandon Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 11/04/15
Posts: 12
Thanks nickbuol, and again craigsub. I really appreciate the knowledgeable input.

Budget really isn't an issue, other than explaining the arrival of giant boxes full of electronics to my wife as "necessary upgrades." I was honestly just surprised that my current sub might not be up to matching the VP180 and the M80/M100. Sounds like I should prepare to be amazed by the upgrades.

I'll noodle on the M80 vs. M100, and the EP800, but you make convincing arguments...


Edited by Brandon (11/04/15 11:01 PM)

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#415308 - 11/05/15 06:50 AM Re: Upgrade from M22 to M100, VP150 to VP180? [Re: Brandon]
MatManhasgone Offline
aficionado

Registered: 05/06/14
Posts: 987
Loc: Lost in the great wide yonder
I went from a larger bookshelf speaker to M80's initially and the step up was considerable. I did move up a few notches to the LFR1100 that was simply mind blowing. Also upgraded from a joke of a center channel to the VP180. That speaker does it all and then some.

I have a pair of the EP500's paired with these speakers in a room that is 16x17x9'.

I would agree with your thought of buying the M100's and then deciding on the sub upgrade. I also have found with my own experience that two subs did sound better over my whole room than just a single one. The M100's do give off a remarkable amount of lower frequency bass and if you were looking just for music, for many it is more than enough. (The LFR's are like the M100's with an extra set of speakers in the rear).

The sound stage and imaging will be a set up from your M22's and you will be perma-smile happy with the setup.
_________________________
Anthem: AVM60
Axiom: ADA1000, LFR1100, VP180, QS8, EP500, M3, M3comp
AudioSource: Amp One/A

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#415309 - 11/05/15 08:06 AM Re: Upgrade from M22 to M100, VP150 to VP180? [Re: Brandon]
Adrian Offline
axiomite

Registered: 12/27/08
Posts: 6880
Loc: It's all about the location.
You could sell your HSU and add that to your budget if needed. Another option would be a pair of subs like the EP500 vs a single EP800(similar $$). BTW, my Paradigm sub runs at approx 1/4 gain...it doesn't really mean anything, it depends on the attenuation of the dial.

Myself, I'm going to try a couple of DIY subs from Dayton Audio at some point...


Edited by Adrian (11/05/15 08:07 AM)
_________________________
Half of communication is listening. You can't listen with your mouth.

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#415314 - 11/05/15 12:25 PM Re: Upgrade from M22 to M100, VP150 to VP180? [Re: Brandon]
exlabdriver Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1727
I have a couple of M22V4s paired up with a couple of magnificent HG Rosewood EP800V3s with a VP160V3 CC. In my 2500 cu ft room, they are mostly just idling. The 800s produce the most pleasing & accurate bass that I've ever heard in a consumer product.

Let me assure you - I've never looked back...

TAM

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#415318 - 11/05/15 01:51 PM Re: Upgrade from M22 to M100, VP150 to VP180? [Re: Brandon]
Brandon Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 11/04/15
Posts: 12
Thanks everyone. Once I get settled into the new house, I'll pull the trigger on the M80's and the EP800.

Two final questions:

1. I'll probably sell the HSU sub I have, but a small part of me is considering using it as a 2nd sub behind the listening area (the EP800 will be going up front between the center and FL speakers. Goal is to even out the sound, but it's probably overkill and not a great matchup in subs.

2. Will the Marantz tuner be sufficient to power the new M80's and the VP180? The old M22's are 8 Ohms and the new M80's are 4 Ohms, and the new VP180 is 4 Ohms while the old VP150 is 6 Ohms. I'm assuming no problems for day to day listening, but those rare occasions that call for high volume for extended periods... will Marantz cut out or shut down?

Thanks

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