Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Looking for AVR that can deal with 4 ohms...

...on a budget

I'm still not 100% sure I'm going to replace my aging HK 630 but the lack of HDMI switching is really starting to suck. While all the latest bells and whistles would be great, missing HDMI and some of the latest formats (Dolby Digital Plus) are what's driving me to look.

Right now my 630 has no trouble driving my M80's, VP180, QS8s and QS4s. I'm worried thou about finding a new AVR that could power that now. It always seemed like those old HK's started life as a power supply then had everything else added to it. Looking these days the process seems to be reversed.

I would truly love to move into the world of dedicated amps but I have no budget for that. In fact I'm looking for a minor miracle in that I just can't spend more than 500 here. I would really love to find something for under 300 that could just get me by for a few years even but I think my 4 ohm requirement screws me there. So I guess I don't really need something super powerful or fancy. Just an AVR that won't die in 3 months from driving my speakers. Any recommendations would be appreciated.

Ben, since you are using powered subwoofers I will assume you are crossing your main's at approximately 80hz. If that is indeed the case that takes a huge demand off your receiver since bass draws the most power. I would not worry about 4k etc at this point in time and I would suggest looking for a upper tier receiver that is a few years old. There are plenty of people that have upgraditis (me) and sell off their used gear to finance the latest and greatest. I currently have a Yamaha RXA-1000 I only used a few months sitting on a shelf. I would surf craigs list or audiogon for a newer receiver. There is also accessories 4 less but that is a crap shoot in my opinion. There is a guy on AVS that sells AV gear and if you call him he will apparently give you some deadly prices. He goes by JDSmoothie and he is a asset at AVS.

Looking at used is a good idea. Still want to make sure I find something that will power my speakers without melting. So I guess the theory is that most upper end models from reasonably good brands are built well enough?

If I had to I guess I could crossover my M80's/VP180 but that's one nice thing about my HK is that it was built well enough so I haven't had to. Seems kinda like a waste to buy something like the M80 and not use it all. Thou if a AVR had a setting for like 40-50hz I would probably use that.

I completely understand where you are coming from , I am just not sure that you can get what you want for $500. I would stay away from older onkyo's which have proven problematic. For 2 channel I would understand not wanting to cross over to the sub but for home theater I see no reason not too. I would look at Denon or Marantz if it were me. I have a Denon 3311 and it is quite capable power wise and has preouts if you want to add an amp at a later date. It seems more and more that the addons are more important than the amplifier or preamp section.

Maybe something like this .

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Harman-Kardon-AVR-2700-7-1-Channel-Home-Theater-Network-Receiver-w-Airplay-/181945055208?hash=item2a5cc537e8:g:NIsAAOSwv-NWWhiO

Hello,

I'm excited to become a member of this family. I bought the 9.1 ( two m80, vf-180, subwoofer 500, two front qs8 and two rear qs8, four ceiling m22).

I am looking for a good 9.1/11.1 avr and looked on at Yamaha aventage 3040, Marantz 8 series. I have the budget to spend for the right one but am confused and novice in knowledge choosing the right avr for me.

Looking at the experts for advice . I'm planning to setup an Dolby atoms home theatre and ocassionally utilize the M80s on my dance floor.

Excuse the typos and techy mispells!

Happy Holidays!!

Vik

Ben, well-designed modern HT receivers have no problem driving speakers labeled with a 4 ohm rating(which applies in a relatively small part of the frequency range)in typical home usage. The reason that they don't carry an "official" 4 ohm rating(under the FTC amplifier regulations)is that they would have to drive a 4 ohm(at all frequencies)load for at least 5 continuous minutes at the full rated power. This is a laboratory torture test which isn't related to typical home listening.

You can get an excellent unit at around the $300 number that you'd like. The Denon X2100 factory refurb at Accessories4less can be recommended as a very full-featured model which should meet your needs and budget.

John that looks like a great deal. Looking around on their site they have this years model as a refurb as well. Have to say I'm a bit torn between them.

Denon AVR-X2100W $299

Denon AVR-S710W $319

The 2100 has a tiny bit more power (95W vs 80W), probably not enough to notice but I know it would still bug me knowing I could have just a bit more headroom. My HK is (conservatively) rated something like 90x2 or 60x7. I can get the M80's pretty damn loud with that but I know I've run out of power before.

The 710 has more HDMI capability/certifications but the 2100 has 4K upsampling. Neither of which I need today but who knows about the future. 2100 also has dual HDMI outputs which I could possibility utilize but it's not too big of a deal.

They both have Audyssey. From what I can tell the 2100 has one additional feature, MultEQ XT vs the 710's MultEQ. This actually intrigues me because I feel like my room is limiting the full potential of my system. Just curious if Audyssey can help.

710 has basic Atmos, which I'm not sure if I care about or not.

I should probably flip a coin because I am certainly capable of agonizing over this decision for a while.

I think either way these AVRs would fit the bill for a few years for sure. I've had my HK 630 for over 10 years now I believe. It was also a refurb.

or enter Yamaha RX-V773WA $329

Pros
Adds pre-outs which could be a real bonus feature down the road.

Cons
No Audyssey, which is more of a curiosity for me than a need
Fewer HDCP certs (I think) than the Denon 710. Again no big deal today.

Not sure if this helps at all but my Denon has Multeq XT and I found things sounded better without using it other than to set my distances. I measured my subs with and without and the difference was negligible. You will get more from room treatments and they super easy to make. The hardest part is deciding what material to use. Having preouts gives you an option of adding an amp at a later date which is a plus. On the downside I felt my RXA 1000 was a little underpowered. guess that didn't help , damn

Welcome to Axiom, Vik. You've got an excellent set of Axioms, but I wonder if using M22s as ceiling speakers is one of the typos. They're a bit big and heavy for that, so did you actually mean M2?

In any case, since you have 11 speakers, you'll need that many channels of amplification to use them simultaneously. Of the ones that you mention, I'm unaware of a "Marantz 8 series" AVR(there is a 8802 preamp/processor). The Yamaha 3040 has 9 internal amplifier channels and if combined with a separate 2-channel amplifier would power your entire setup with 4 ceiling speakers for Atmos.

My suggestion for a 9-channel AVR(again, a 2-channel separate amplifier is also needed)for Atmos play would be one of the Denon models with the top Audyssey MultEQ XT32 room correction processing. Suitable models would include the X5200, X6200 and X7200 . If you're in the U.S. you can get great deals on the factory refurbs (when in stock)from Accessories4less.

Ben, note that the S710 isn't the current model most nearly a successor to the X2100. There's no specific replacement model, but a bit above the X1200 and below the X2200 would be the closest description. The order on the current models in descending order is X2200-X1200-S910-S710. So, the S710 can be considered(except for the added Atmos capability for two rather than four overheads)to be between two and three steps down from the X2100.

If Atmos processing isn't essential I'd strongly suggest the X2100 over the S710. It has the higher grade Audyssey MultEQ XT, and my view is that you should get the highest version which is within your budget. If Atmos is necessary, consider the X2200 .

Thanks for the nudge, ordered the 2100 tonight. I think this will do what I need for a few years or more. I really appreciate everyone's ideas and recommendations.

Hah !

I skimmed the thread quickly and was about to recommend you look for a used HK 630

I love me some 630

Funny, my 525 just kicked the bucket. Fortunately it was in a second system by now, but it certainly went in a weird way. The fan won't turn off, and the fan is interfering with the amps.

Since a new receiver has been ordered I guess it's a good time to de-rail the thread.

Has anyone done the firmware update (for additional decode options and faster auto-detecdt) on an HK 630 themselves ? I dug out a couple of old PCs recently that had actual serial ports so seems like something I should try over the weekend... but on the other hand the receiver is now old enough that if I do screw something up it might be hard to get a replacement processor (ie one with non-screwed-up flash). Thoughts ?

That's funny. I would do a search and see how many other guys have screwed theirs up.

I just remembered, I had to update my wideband oxygen sensor and I used a sabrent usb to rs232 adapter. Took a bit to find 64 bit drivers but worked top notch after that.

And then there is THIS so understand being hesitant.

I've just tried out a Yamaha RX-A3050. It made my 4-ohm Axiom M80s sit up & take notice. Soundstage for miles too... It may be out of your price range, but it didn't blink at 4-ohm speakers all around.

Got the 2100 yesterday, tore out the HK and cried a little inside. That thing is a beast, probably weights 3 times as much as the new Denon (looks way better too!).

Anyway moving onward got it plugged in and setup then ran into issues with the HTPC connecting thru it. I've had this Win7 MCE box for years connected directly to the TV with HDMI and spdif to the HK without any issues. Throwing an AVR in between has reminded me about how much of a pain windows display/HDCP can be. I've been messing around with taping off pin 19 on the HDMI cable, etc but so far it's not working very well. I may have to switch back to having the HTPC send video to the TV and audio to the AVR. At least my growing number of other devices have a home finally on the AVR. For so long I've done 100% of everything thru the HTPC but those days are slowly dying.

/end rant

John,

Thank you so much for the reply and I did go ahead and bought the Denon 6200w per your suggestion. Also you are correct on the ceiling speakers those are M2s .

I finally got all mounted for my new house but I am only able to get 7.1 ( 2front, 1 center, 1 subwoofer, 2 inceiling and, 2 surround L&R ) to work. I am trying multiple ways to connect my back surround speakers but dont seem to quite understand on fixing it. Any ddvise? I am also planning to buy a separate amplifier for the 2 in ceiling speakers to complete the 11.1 setup. Any advise on the second amplifier choice will also help me enjoy this latest addition.

Forgot to mention...7.1 setup itself rocks and we are very happy with the buy.I now just got to get the other speakers to work. Please help.

I don't personally use ceiling speakers, Atmos or otherwise(Nick has experience in this type of setup). Without knowing specifically the "multiple ways" that you've tried to connect the back surrounds, it's difficult to judge where the problem lies.

Possibly you should make sure that you've made the proper connections for a 7.1 setup with the back surrounds(as shown on p.49 of the manual)but with the ceiling speakers disconnected. The default amplifier setting is to have 7 channels active, which is sufficient for this setup.

If this results in the back surrounds being active, you can try the next step to power the ceiling speakers. Since this now requires 9 channels of amplification to be active, the amp assign setting(manual p.46)should be changed to 9.1 rather than the 7.1(plus zone 2)which is the default.

I loved my HK-630, but lack of hdmi forced me to upgrade years ago. It's still sitting on the floor of a closet. I did do a firmware upgrade on it myself long time ago. From what I remember, I didn't have the correct cord to hook up to the serial connection. Once I had the cord, the upgrade went fine. It definitely isn't the easiest thing to do.