Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo So NOW I'm a real Axiom owner...

I would guess that goes back to every room being different because of the way sound interacts with it. Did you ever do measurements of your room with and without the sub? I wonder if you had some suck-outs that were mitigated by adding the subs?

My room is also a concrete bunker, so I would have no or little bass/mid bass loss through the walls. I was very surprised when I first did the comparison.

I'd like to go subless. My current M80s (no high-powered woofers) don't have enough output for my room (close, but no cigar). I'm thinking of trading them in for M100s. With three rather than two woofers, and with the long-throw, high-power ones, should I be able to energize the room adequately with the larger speakers?

Things to keep in mind -

I don't want 20 Hz. I'm perfectly happy with an honest 30. My wife doesn't like (at all) having her diaphragm doing the watusi along with the organ pedals, so I'm not into deep extension.

I don't play loudly. My loudest listening level is in the low 90 dB range. And that's on a rowdy day.

My room isn't huge - 15 x 26 feet.

I'm currently using a pair of PowerSound Audio XV-15s. They add significantly to the sound, but I'm thinking that it isn't bass volume, but rather bass cone-area that makes them "authoritative" in the room. The naked M80s sound smooth and well balanced, but they don't do bass imaging like the M80s with the subs.

Before you say the obvious, yes, I know that bass isn't audibly directional. But the mid-bass clues from the M80s "steer" the mind into thinking that the bass is left or right channel rather than monophonic. I know this to be true because the placement of my subs seems to matter little. I get just as good a bass energization of the room whether the subs are placed separately or stacked in the corner. Either way, it sounds like stereo bass.

So what's the consensus - Will M100s benefit me or am I wasting money needlessly?

Thanks - Boomzilla (moniker NOT indicative of listening preference)

It would stand to reason that more drivers will result in more bass. My room is 12 x 24 roughly and when I play my M80's with an sacd I have to check my subs because it sounds like they are playing. I have my M80's backed pretty close to the wall and equidistant from the corners and they lay down some damn good bass.From everything I have read the M100's really pound out the bass. Craig should be able to answer this for you easily. I think the M100's will be as close to a sub that you can come without actually having a sub. Are you using an external amp with your M80s ,I ask because I am and it made a big difference over just my Denon 3311 receiver.

Richard

This is a tough question you are asking Boom.
You don't want bass extension yet you find that the subwoofer does add prominence to the sound (and it likely will).
We are talking basic physics.
More drivers, equals more air movement, equals more bass. Larger driver (typical on subwoofers) equals more bass more easily (with less power).

Frankly, you sound like you want to get rid of the sub and go with a single speaker set. If that is your intent then yes, go with M100s to maximize the bass output as you can.
However if you are on the fence about whether you will 'lose' something by getting rid of the subwoofer, you are correct.
You will lose low end bass extension and the ability to create bass with less power.

You don't need to have your subwoofer turned up to the point where the wife thinks she's having another child. If dialed in correctly at an appropriate SPL for your preference, you can keep the M80s and have a great sound reproduction to your liking.
If as mentioned you are intent on getting rid of the sub though, for either aesthetic or other reasons, then sure, consider the M100s as an alternative to "try" and maintain as much bass as possible.

Just fyi, 90dB is pretty damn loud.
I would recommend a sub in these conditions.

Thanks, guys - You are right - I want to lose the two subs. The M80s almost (really, almost!) provide enough bass, and with the additional long-throw, high-powered woofers of the M-100, I'm thinking that I can lose the subs without giving up anything.

You're right - 90 dB IS loud, and I don't often play at that level.

In my case, the anechoic -3dB point of my subwoofers is identical to the -3dB anechoic point of my M80s (31 Hz). The subs do NOT add extension. Only air.

So M-100s are in the future. I emailed Axiom about the trade of my M80s AND my 100 center channel. I haven't heard back from them yet. Any idea why?

One additional question - I bought my M80s with outriggers. Will the same outriggers fit my new M100s, or are those different outriggers?

Boom:

Did you go thru the 'Trade-Up' link on the Home Page? From what I remember, you plug in your M80s info it should come up with a price difference right away - no email involved, at least initially...

TAM

I can only "trade up" from a single Axiom product on the web page. I need to trade up from two - My M80s & VP-100.

Boom, I think you'd be best giving Axiom a call directly.

Thanks Adrian -

You're EXACTLY right. Ms. Debbie of Axiom took my call, quoted me trade-in prices for all three speakers, and quoted me the difference on the spot. I paid immediately, and my M100s should be on the way! Now I've got to go scrounge in the attic for the original boxes so I can return my speakers.

By the way, Debbie was a pleasure to deal with and exceptionally patient with me. She deserves a raise!