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#416432 - 01/12/16 01:04 PM Trade off question
TroyD Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 613
Loc: Bridgewater, Nova Scotia, CA
Ok, so if I decide to use subs for music. Is there any advantage other than volume between used the M60HP with subs and the M80HP with subs ?
I have M80v3 ... as you know I would rather listen to music without subs. I am trying to decide if I really need to go to the M80 HP or if I can just get the M60HP.
Curious to know if, Just wondering if the M60v4 HP will go lower than the M80v3

Not sure, but thinking I will not notice any different at all if I stay with my M80v3 and get dual subs and say the hell with up grading.

My son wants to buy my M80v3 so I am trying to decide if the upgrade or $2000 is worth it, I know in movies I will not notice the bass as Ian already mentioned that. The only difference I would see is in 2ch no sub. But, then Andrew mentioned I probably ain't going to still get the Uhmmph I want with music with the M80HP , that the M100 are what I probably want. Well, the room size and price level of the M100 are out of the question. So, I have four setups questions I need to figure out. I wish I had the $10,000 right now to get all these speakers and test them all out at one time. wink
_________________________
Anthem AVM30
Anthem MCA50
M22v4
VP160v4
EP350
EP500

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#416433 - 01/12/16 01:13 PM Re: Trade off question [Re: TroyD]
TroyD Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 613
Loc: Bridgewater, Nova Scotia, CA
SO my possiblilties are and thinking is
I do not need a VP180 HP a VP180v4 is all I need as for music I like 2 ch. and no subs. If watching movies well I will have subs turn on and that would be good enough.

1) Keep my v3 M80's and VP180 and just add the Subs.
2) M80v4 and VP180v4 and Subs
3) M60v4 HP with a VP160v4 and Subs
4) M80HP and VP180 with Subs

Mind you I would prefer no subs with music, but just need to know if I am going to get that extra bottom end in the M80HP for two channel. I don't go extremely loud with music, maybe I guess a bit above average. Whatever that can mean. I guess to say if I am watching a movie my Pro is at about -15db. with music maybe -10db to - 6db if in the mood. Other than that probably the same level -15db. Now, I am using a Anthem MCA50 385w per and Anthem AVM30 pre/pro if that helps figure something out. I used the sound meter and set the reference to 75db at -15db on the dial
_________________________
Anthem AVM30
Anthem MCA50
M22v4
VP160v4
EP350
EP500

Top
#416434 - 01/12/16 01:29 PM Re: Trade off question [Re: TroyD]
TroyD Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 613
Loc: Bridgewater, Nova Scotia, CA
and to make matters worse one step further. If I am using Subs 24/7.
What are the benefits of having M60's and two subs and a crossover set to 80hz.
than to have M22's and dual subs with the crossover set to 80hz ?

Both the M22 and M60 have the identical Tweeter and Mid ranges.
I just cannot grasp the concept of the extra size speakers in expense if I am not utilizing anything much below 80hz. I know it's a gradual roll off, but I don't think it is still rolling off at 60hz ?
_________________________
Anthem AVM30
Anthem MCA50
M22v4
VP160v4
EP350
EP500

Top
#416435 - 01/12/16 02:37 PM Re: Trade off question [Re: TroyD]
exlabdriver Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1750
I don't know why you have such a problem with using subs for music - you are losing out IMO. When properly implemented & dialed in, IMO there is no better way to get the full spectrum of the lower end. If they are not 'dialed in' properly, boominess or muddiness can/will occur or they can sound like that ugly flabby bass that car systems are so famous for.

As 'craigsub' has discovered in all of his sub testing, Axioms just sound plain good - 'musical' that many people talk about.

For my music only 2 CH system, my M2s plus a pair of EP-400s are just stunning & reach down to ~17 Hz in my room. I dialed in the subs' level by ear 2 years ago & haven't touched them since.

Audio bliss for me...

TAM

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#416439 - 01/12/16 03:27 PM Re: Trade off question [Re: TroyD]
TroyD Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 613
Loc: Bridgewater, Nova Scotia, CA
I don't know TAM, which really begs to differ why towers and a sub if I am going to be setting them to small and LFE.
As for me and 2ch music, I just really like that tight fast Thumppp sound as opposed to a Umphh sound with a sub.
I wish I could do a road trip and take my M80 and VP180 to Dwight ON and say setup all these and let me hear the diffeences.

I mean really if I got to use subs, then why not get the M22's and four subs ? I had the M22 and they play loud enough in a room than was 15 x 23 and 10' ceilings.

They say they stress out at higher volumes, but to what higher volume ? They have the same tweeter same woofers as the M60.

If really there is not much a improvement that warrantys spending $2400 more why not go back to the M22's and subs. I think M22's a VP160 and four SVS Ultra non ported with be bliss wink or 4 EP500's
_________________________
Anthem AVM30
Anthem MCA50
M22v4
VP160v4
EP350
EP500

Top
#416440 - 01/12/16 03:28 PM Re: Trade off question [Re: TroyD]
TroyD Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 613
Loc: Bridgewater, Nova Scotia, CA
Thanks for your input too
_________________________
Anthem AVM30
Anthem MCA50
M22v4
VP160v4
EP350
EP500

Top
#416441 - 01/12/16 04:06 PM Re: Trade off question [Re: TroyD]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 18044
Loc: NoVA
Wow, you have a ton of threads asking the same questions over and over again.
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#416445 - 01/12/16 07:11 PM Re: Trade off question [Re: TroyD]
exlabdriver Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 09/07/11
Posts: 1750
As 'craigsub' & I have both found out, Axiom subs 'Thumpp' & don't softly 'Umphh'. That's what makes them so 'musical' for want of a better term.

For music only in my fairly large area, I really like the 400s' 8" drivers with a potent 500 w/CH - they are so fast & articulate. Many out there will dispute the 'speed' of a sub driver, but I think that there is something to it. Unless you have a huge open area, 2 powerful subs (500, 600, or 800) should do the trick. Four would be nice & more costly of course.

Having said that, I am not using any 'LFE' settings as my Tube Amp has no digital skulduggery on board. The subs are driven from the Amps 'Speaker Out' Terminals to the subs' 'Hi Level Inputs' where my speaker wires are joined to feed the M2s. Levels are adjusted by ear to my preference which is not excessive.

For my HT duties in a different room, my 2 X EP-800s very nicely augment my M22V4s. With these beasts, I don't know if anything would be gained by going to Towers...

TAM

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#416447 - 01/12/16 08:36 PM Re: Trade off question [Re: TroyD]
Mojo Online   content
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 4861
The so-called speed is what's perceived when there's a lack of distortion. I've heard the EP400 in my home and there's no audible distortion. Unfortunately I can't say the same about my EP600 v2. I am sure however the new line of Axiom sealed subs is distortion-free.

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#416449 - 01/12/16 10:09 PM Re: Trade off question [Re: TroyD]
brendo Offline
devotee

Registered: 10/14/14
Posts: 382
Loc: West coast Canada
Troy Another trick you could try with your towers is the sub crawl,
Luckily with my M80s I managed to place them in a boost zone.

In my room I've only found 2 locations that aren't a null.
Even my corner was cancelling my subs??

I myself started with the M3, went up to the M22 both with an SVSPB1000. They were both fantastic. Then I got the VP160 the sound was so much fuller. I had to have the towers. To me the towers give a richer more emersive sound. Than did my bookshelves.

Doesn't your Anthem have variable crossovers?
My Audessey always sets my towers to full. And the bookshelves to 40. Which I usually raise my self.

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