Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater New Member Here with a Question About Upgrading

New member here and have a question for all the experts here..

I became the proud owner of a new 65” Hitachi Ultravision HDTV unit in December of last year based on my wife and I’s avid watching of widescreen DVD’s. After I found out the real scoop on high def. I signed up for the VOOM satellite service so I could fully utilize the HD potential of my new set.

About a month before I bought the Hitachi I upgraded my age old surround sound system with one of the Onkyo HTS-760 HTB’s after a lot of research and reviews. At the time this unit was perfect for my budget since I was about to invest in my new TV. After getting everything settled in and calibrated I just wasn’t 100% satisfied with the low end so back to the net for research I went. Two weeks ago I said hello to my latest upgrade - a SVS 20-39 PC+ sub. Now THAT’S more like it.

Now since all of your understand what the “upgrade” fever is all about you can relate with me. After reading thru many of the home theater forums online I kept seeing all the hoopla about the Axiom speakers and now that little voice starts telling me this is something I should look into. So thus that brings me here. Now that I have bored you with my story here is my question.

The fronts and center speakers of the HTS-760 have basically the same speaker elements as the M22’s and the VP100. I do realize that just because a speaker has the same amount of elements doesn’t mean they will sound the same. I keep seeing that most HT users equipment list contains higher end stuff so some of you may not have even heard any of the “low end” stuff but thought I would ask anyway. Have any of you ever heard the fronts and center of the Onkyo 760 and can tell me if the M22 and VP100 would give me any improvement? I just have this gut feeling that the Axiom’s will in fact give me a better sound than what I have now due to them containing better drivers and are probably a better built box.

The rear surrounds I won’t even ask about since there are more speaker elements in the Axiom QS4’s and am sure they would definitely be an improvement.

Most of our usage will be 75% HT and 25% music. I was at first considering the M60’s but as you see from my setup here:

http://www.stampcometal.com/files/tvwithsub.jpg

I really don’t have room to place the towers plus with my SVS Sub I have the low end covered. My living room is 20x20 with a vaulted ceiling that starts at 8’ and rises to 14’ and what I have in place now I feel does a real nice job. As I found with the SVS, until you hear something better you never realize what you’ve been missing all along.

If I do go with the Axiom fronts/center I will of course have to replace my 3 rears to complete the whole matched set.

I wish someone had warned me about how addicting all this HDTV/HT stuff was going to be and I might have side stepped it..Yeah right...Who am I kidding?

Thanks for sticking with me thru all my ramblings.

Any advice or “arm pulling” greatly appreciated.

Rick

Hi Rick,

Welcome!

Okay, Ray, I'll hold him and you go get the arm stretcher.

Well, Rick, you've come to the right place. Having repented from the error of your HTIB ways, and having embraced the true spiritual meaning of SVS bass, you are now poised to bask in the glory of Axiom enlightenment. Can I get a Hallelujah, brothers and sisters?!?!

[Freak mode off].

Gorgeous TV.

You're going to have to consider a couple other things. First, you really need to try to get your main (front L/R) speakers out of the entertainment center. Your current positioning is almost certainly generating some nasty reflections and refractions, and compromising the imaging and clarity. So, even if you step up to Axioms, you really should consider stands or floorstanders - anything to get the speakers out of that "secondary box" and allow them to breathe free.

Second, that Onkyo head unit looks like a really terrific HTIB. I looked at the specs, and it seems to be a nice unit. But you know what Rex Stout said - there are two kinds of statistics: the kind you look up and the kind you make up. I can't help but think that, even if you get the Axioms, you would ALSO notice a signficant, audible improvement by going to a dedicated receiver. It's pretty easy for manufacturers to creatively interpret power ratings and frequency response.

However, in terms of tempering the inevitable upgradeitis path to WAF-friendly levels, I think your plan to upgrade the speakers first is a great approach.

AND you will notice a huge difference between the Axioms and the current Onkyo speakers. I'm bad at explaining scietific principles (although we have forum members who excel at it). And even if I could, your ears are the only way to know The Truth. What I can tell you is that Axiom makes only speakers, and my experience is that they do it very, very well. You will be amazed at the difference. It will be every bit as stunning as your SVS epiphany.

Talk to the folks at Axiom. They will help you design a system to meet your current budget and future needs. Browse the forums. You'll find lots of happy (and weird) people here.

Like Tom said, you need to get those L/R speakers out of the entertainment unit. Having them standing upright in the open would likely be a huge improvement.

Tom & Will..

Thanks for your feedback regarding my post. What you had to say was what I had already figured the answers would be..

Thought I would also throw out another bone and see what ideas I could get regarding selling a portion of my current/old setup.

Since I would be replacing the entire speaker system that came with my HTS-760 I would be looking to get rid of the 7 speakers that came with it as well as my 3 year old Onkyo TX-DS747 receiver (only a 5.1 with no DTS). I look back and I can't believe I paid $700 for that thing. (some fool on Ebay has one listed for $700. .)

Any ideas as to what would be a fair asking price for the receiver/speakers as a package?

Thought I would try to see if I can find a buyer for those before ordering the Axiom's and figured you guys would have a better feel for a fair price on used equipment.

Thanks again..
Rick

Rick,

You're following a similar path to what I took. I started out a few years ago with a Panasonic mini system, upgraded to a Kenwood HTIB (HTB-544) which gave me a taste of real performance but left me wanting more, and then ultimately upgraded to Axiom M22's, VP150, QS8's and SVS sub (plus a H/K AVR520 receiver).

You already have the sub part down, and I'd say you should definitely upgrade the rest if that's what you want to do. Your Onkyo speakers, like the Kenwood speakers, can sound pretty good. The designs are not that different from Axioms for example. But the overall performance of the Axioms far surpasses any HTIB speakers. Plus, good subs like SVS and HSU just scream for comparable speakers like Axiom. I'd say go for it without hesitation.

I was in the same shoes. my room is smaller , 12x14. Since i listen to music more often than watching movie (70/30), i opt for M60Ti. I don't want to keep upgrading later on. The problem is i have to move speakers around (47 lbs each) to get the good sound image. I eventually will get a sub ( i think i go for HSU STF-2 ). As most people here will suggest you (including me ) that M22ti + Sub will be great. I got M60 yesterday and I love the sound...but i will upgrade my receiver to the Outlaw 950/7100 (pream/am).

Hey Rick,

Now, wait a minute here....

I don't know squat about reselling old gear. I just use mine until it goes terminal and then I use it to keep my dinghy from moving during beer drinking, er, fishing season. Sorry. But, in your shoes, I would sell the HTIB as a set; I'll bet you can get some value for it.

BUT, that Onkyo TX-DS747 is a pretty darn nice unit that you paid good money for. It undoubtedly has better amplification electronics than the HTIB rig. Is it "broken" in any way? It does Dolby Digital, right? (decodes a coax or optical digital input signal) It has five channels of amplification, right? Do you have another DVD player besides the one in the HTIB?

Let's reassess here, especially in light of that asset, Axiom's surround speaker design, and other forum members' experiences with 5.1 vs. 7.1.

The Axiom surrounds are superb. I have the QS8's and am delighted. As many folks have pointed out, they are very flexible relative to placement, and the quadpolar design is very enveloping.

I bet that 5.1 with the Axioms is going to present you with not only better tone but also better "Surround" than the 6.1 with those directional Onkyo's you are currently using. I don't think that there is much (any?) discrete 6.1 material right now; the only thing the 6th channel is doing for you is matrixing the other surrounds to give you a fuller rear sound stage. Depending upon your room and listening habits, it may not negatively impact you to "downsize" to 5.1 with the Axioms.

One of the board sages (Craig aka spiffnme) has terrific Rotel gear (no, not the canned tomatoes and peppers, which are yummy, but don't have good frequency response). He went from 5.1 to 7.1; for him, the difference was not a life changing event. I'm sure he'll chime in, especially if I've misquoted him.

Which leaves us with - is DTS the only other "deficit" of the Onkyo 747? My experience (and I'm just a guy sitting on my couch drinking a beer) is that the DTS soundtrack of most movies is not THAT much better than the Dolby Digital soundtrack. Not enough to warrant trashing that big Onk at this time anyway.

Here's what I'd do:
1. Pack up and sell the 760 HTIB.
2. Buy another DVD player if you have to. Don't go off the deep end. Newer stuff is becoming available (including universal player changers), and everything is getting cheaper and better all the time.
3. Buy as much Axiom as you can at this time and hook it up to your Onkyo 747.

If you are on a budget and want to continue to have upgradeitis, you would be thrilled, THRILLED I tell you, with M22's and some stands, VP100 and QS4's. If you have more to spend, want your face to hurt from smiling so much, don't want to wonder "what if", don't care if you neglect to bathe because you can't tear yourself away from the media room, etc. buy the M60's, VP150 and QS8's. Combined with your SVS, you'd be a really happy camper for many years to come.

4. THEN decide when to make the leap to a new receiver and a 6.1 or 7.1 setup.

Of course, all this is moot if your 747 does not do Dolby Digital. But I think it does.

Anybody mix Ro-Tel with cream cheese? Yum. Lunchtime.

Tom,

Man are you a stand up comedian for living? If not, you ought to be. I have laughed my a** off from your two posts in this thread.

There is nothing wrong with the Onkyo DS747. I only pulled it when I got the new HTIB unit. I do have to agree that I really can't tell any difference between a DTS and Dolby 5.1 mix. I DO know that the old 747 is like a sack of cement. That thing is HEAVY. The one that came in the 760 package I could lift with one hand. In my opinion heavy would be the first sign of "better"..no?

Yes the old 747 has plenty of optical/coax digital inputs and 5.1 speaker outputs which includes a separate output line for the sub..

The 760 did not come with a DVD player. I have a Panasonic HS2 DVD Recorder that I use for DVD playing so that's not even an issue.

Your idea about selling ALL of the HTIB set may not be a bad one since now that you have got me to thinking the only thing that the new unit really offered over the old one was 6.1 and DTS and from what you are saying with two of the Axiom's in back I may not even miss the back center I had.

What I HAD planned on buying regarding the Axioms was the M22's, VP150 center, and QS4's for the back. That was going to total about $1200 since I needed 3 of the QS4's but if I go back to my 5.1 unit I can drop the third rear and come in at $1060. Sell my 760 for $400 (it's only about 4 moths old) so I will end up having about $660 in the Axiom's in the end. Not a bad tradeoff if you ask me!

As much as I would like to go whole hog with the M60,V150 and QS8 combo I still have my TV to pay off by next January so I will try to keep it at reasonable boundry (is that word even allowed in a HT forum?) Besides as you can see from the link to the pic of my setup I don't have anymore room to the left (front door) or right (coat closet)to place the M60's so the M22's will have to do. But now that I think of it I could get two QS8's for the same money I was going to spend on the 3 of the QS4's...(there goes that voice again..hush up now). No the two QS4's will work fine.

I really appreciate you taking the time to write all you have. Sometimes it takes someone from the outside looking in to help keep us on track..

Have a cold one for me!!
Rick

OK...just read through this thread, and looked at your picture. (Nice looking setup btw!!!)

You say you have no room for the M60ti's, but you think you have room for the M22's? Where are you going to put the M22's? They'd be on stands I assume? I'm a bit confused on that point.

Is there ANY place else you can put the SVS? In the rear of the room? In a corner? The sub can be put pretty much anywhere and still sound good. If you can move the sub, then you can put the M60's or M22's on either side of your ET center.

I also agree, that your old "sack of cement" receiver will work perfectly. With the QS series surrounds, 5.1 will be terrific.

Rick,

A cold WHAT, exactly? Is that anything like a "wet willie"? Have you SEEN "the beer thread" in the Advice forum?

Thanks for the kind words. You're more interesting than my work today. Ray3 is generally funnier than I am, but he has not yet discovered you as a straight man. Plus, I don't have to shovel snow all winter like he does. bwahahaha.

I have read in several places that weight of amplifiers is indeed a sign of quality. This is America. Less is not more, more is more.

I can't really see from the picture what is to the sides of the SVS on the left and the plant/table on the right. You do seem to have a wonderful family arrayed along the top. Good on you.

However, you've still got speaker placement issues. Again, I strongly urge you to find a way to get the mains out of the entertainment center. And if you absolutely cannot do that, you may not be able to fit M22's in those same holes; the Onkyo site says your current fronts are 16.5" tall (or "wide" as you have them on their sides). It looks like they fill that space pretty full. The M22's are 19.7" according to the Axiom site. Better measure. It looks like an M22 on a stand would fit just fine right in front of that water heater, er, subwoofer. And that is a cute little table thing on the right, but really, I'll bet it doesn't produce high notes very well. And if you've got room for stands, you've got room for floorstanders...

Or you could wall-mount them perhaps. Or go to the M2.

The M22 is a well-loved speaker, and many forum regulars have paired it with SVS products, and simply will not shut up about how happy they are. You'll be delighted too.

Keep in mind the Factory Outlet products; you wait a bit, but save 10% and hardly anyone can find "the blemish". I certainly couldn't on either pair I bought. Likewise, I believe that if you order 5 or more pieces at the same time, they give you an additional discount. But I just live here, I don't work here. Call and talk to somebody at Axiom about your room configuration, especially relative to the surround choice.

And whatever you decide, stick around the forum.

I just went through this. Bought that onkyo system to complement a front projector video setup. quickly got upgrade fever. Started with M22's, then VP150, then QS4's, then one QS8 for the rear center. This has turned into a wonderful improvement for me, and actually it keeps growing on you. The onkyo receiver is still just fine, although it's just a matter of time until the fever hits there as well. I decided to do the sub last, so that's my next thing. I did add some bass shakers as well. Very happy. I'm nowhere near an expert but my guess would be that SVS sub would be awesome with the M22 and VP center. But you know, for me, with that darn bug, it's only a matter of time until those M60's (or M80) get ordered... the wife has been talking about moving to a bigger house...

Man, this work stuff is REALLY getting in the way. Rick - looks like everyone has you in tow, but watch out for Tom, he'll pull you under. He did mention "wet willies" and I won't get near that one. I made an unfortunatre mistake once in a similar vein when I rented the DVD titled "Free Willy" thinking it was an adult movie. Disappointing.

After reading Tom's input today, I will need to try and get whatever he is smoking!

You are my favorite 2 people in one - 1) spending lots of money on HT and 2) asking for help to do it!

It's all right here in front of you on this thread:
1) Dump or replace the HTIB

2) M22s or M60s (preferered) for the fronts. In fact - get the M60s (sorry, just experienced a testosterone rush) Think about the upgradeitis you are going through now, you don't want to keep going through it over and over. Looks like you might have some flexibility to move the SVS (I've got my 20-39 behind a chair). You don't really want to put the M22s in the ent. center anyhow, so they would need to be on the floor stands as spiff points out.

3) VP150 for the center, but the VP100 is excellent if you want to save a buck or apply the $$ to the QS8s.

4) QS4s are good, QS8s are burlier. Save the bucks & get the QS8s.

Looks like you have the makings of a plan. Hope all of the input was helpful.

Man you guys are killing me!..LOL

Decisions, decisions, decisions..

Ray, I completely understand where you are coming from regarding your comment about the "upgradeitis". I know.. buy what I "really" want and I won't have to go thru this again a year from now.

Tom..You are correct about the size of the "hole" where my current fronts are located. There is a lip of molding on the front of the cabinet but the actual space left to right inside is 20" so the M22's would fit but it would a bear to get it in there. I would probably have to remove the back to get it to fit. I don't like that idea so I am back to finding a way to make "something" work on the sides like you all have mentioned.

Ray.. I have an "L" sectional on the opposite wall and I could put the sub behind it in the corner but this would hide my "water heater" as Tom called it and I would be afraid it would loose a lot being behind the sectional plus my wife has this "spray of lights" behind there but I could ask her nice (ok beg will be more like it) if she could move it.
Here is a shot of the corner I mentioned..

http://www.stampcometal.com/files/livingroombackcorner.jpg

Sitting in the area beside the endtable you are facing the TV so the sub would be to your left. I think I would loose a lot of the SVS potential as I feel it would "soak" into the couch. Any thoughts there?

Here is what I have to work with to the left and right of the TV. (Forgive the crappy pics, just grabbed my camera and shot)

Left

http://www.stampcometal.com/files/tvleft.jpg

Right

http://www.stampcometal.com/files/tvright.jpg

If I went with the M22's and left my SVS where it is I could mount a shelf to the left/right side of each cabinet to put them on to get them out of the cabinet. If I considered the M60's then the sub would have to move for the left one to be placed. The "cute little table thing" could be moved for the right one though.

One other thing... here is the specs on my old Onkyo TX-DS747

Stereo Mode: 90 watts/channel into 8 ohms at 0.08% THD, 20-20kHz
Surround Mode: 80 watts x 3 plus 40 x 2 watts (surround)

That's a little weak for the surrounds..Won't that be too little a power for either the 4's or 8's?

The unit that came with the HTIB at least has 100 watts/channel and I know this will work fine.

Ray I wish I had "lots of money" as you mentioned but just trying to get the best purchase without going overboard. If I get the "whole enchilada" M60,150 and 8's I won't be able to get a new receiver until much later..

So here I am back at your all's mercy..

Thanks guys for a great forum!
You help (and humor) is great

Rick

Ok....how about this....
Is that door to the right of the TV a closet or a door to another well used room? If it's a closet, move the SVS to the right of the closet. You'd still be able to open the door most of the way - plus you'd excite more room modes with the SVS in the corner (could be good, could be bad).

Then get either M22 + stands or M60's and place them forward of the plane of the TV. This'll help imaging loads. The left speaker can be in the place where the SVS was.


Optional - and a stretch - ditch 1/2 of the "entertainment center" to buy yourself some speaker room. This would also require you taking the "roof" off of the entertainment center which would also remove the cavity that your center channel is in and may buy you some imaging. Keep your audio equipment in the left 1/2.


Optional - expensive - If that's not an RPTV that you have and you can put the TV on another stand, get one that has space for your receiver/DVD player and ditch the entertainment center all together. Looks like the ET Center is limiting your options...but if it's gotta stay, it's gotta stay. I just ditched a HUGE entertainment center with a 36" TV into it and went to an infocus X1 projector. You wouldn't believe how much the room opened up. Good feng shui.
Tilt your center channel down towards your listening position and, if possible, position it a little over the lip of the front of the TV. Should open up the CC a little bit.


Also fun for upgradeitis - and based on my personal experience, you could also consider a Behringer Feedback Destroyer (parametric equalizer) for your SVS. It should make your SVS sound like you thought it would sound. If you equalize your speakers with a Radio Shack SPL meter and you've set your sub to the same level as your other speakers, you've essentially set your sub to the largest peak/excited room mode of the sub and you may be missing out on a whole bunch of frequencies as a result. I've sunk WAY too much time into researching and testing this recently and have gone so far as to getting ETF5 and TrueRTA on my laptop with a Behringer mic as input. I'm most interested in the bass equalization.


The sum of it all is that rarely do looks/aesthetics and quality speaker placement go together....:)

Your TV is too big. Get a smaller one and then your speakers will fit.

(Well, some jealous person had to say it!)

Andrew,

Yes the door to the right is a coat closet but there isn't but about 10" from the wall to where the door frame starts. Guess I could move it over there just to see how it would perform. I can hear my wife now.." You are gonna move it where?"..LOL

I don't want to loose any of my cabinet as I like the way it "frames" the TV.

It is an RPTV and a one piece set.

Guess I will just have to decide on what I want to buy and if I can adjust everything around to fit..

Thanks for all the feedback.

Rick

Hee hee hee. Rick doesn't know about the Newbie Audio Consulting Fee for Alleviating Room Technicalities (NACFART).

Oh heck, was I speaking out loud?

Anyway, first, don't worry about the amp power. The 747 has got way more than enough to crush your eardrums into puddles of molten goo. It is *rated* differently than the HTIB. You know, there are three kinds of lies - Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics? The 747 power is rated full spectrum (20-20k Hz), whereas the HTIB box is rated at 1k Hz. Apples and Oranges. Actually, more like Tangelos and Watermelons. No worries about having enough power to drive even the 6 ohm QS8's with that thing.

I would not under any circumstances try to wedge M22's into that entertainment center. Well, maybe if you paid me. Okay, if I was all beered up and you dared me. Okay, there are lots of circumstances in which *I* might do it, but YOU should not because you have to live with the consequences.

I'd try moving the sub to another corner like the one behind the couch. Can it peacefully coexist with the light or are we talking about missiles in Cuba here?

My uninformed, dirt-cheap opinion is that having the sub over there would probably not seriously degrade its performance. It'll still thump you good.

I'd resist the urge to "mount shelves" on the outside of your EC and go with stands or floorstanders. Who am I kidding? I haven't resisted an urge in quite some time.

"back at our mercy". The endless possibilities.

Order up already! If you call Axiom in the morning, I'll bet you'd have your new speakers on Monday.

This is why I value Pete's posts. His clarity of logic and ability to cut through it all to articulate the most effective solution is just stunning!!!!

Rick, I've got to assume you have already considered the basic and most effective problem solver - Sell the wife. Having said that, do you have an opportunity to pull the sectional far enough away from the wall to get the SVS back (OK, WITH the lights)? If not, your idea of the SVS around the L corner might just work.. The LFE isn't directional per se, it just needs a good place to bounce from (damn, I love this technical stuff).

If you can find a place for the SVS, it looks like the M60s would just fit, especially since you will want them 1-2 feet away from the wall. Honestly, you have almost the same problem hanging the M22's in that space. Does the door on the left side need to open / close or can you just remove it?

Let's keep working it. I don't think bigjohn is gonna be much help on this one, he's sitting at the end of his driveway with a Lone Star waiting for the Fed Ex truck.

Oh, we should all hold hands and agree that stuffing the M22s into the recesses of a cabinet is not where we want to end up.

I want to end up with bigjohn down at the end of the driveway with a Lone Star. Okay, a Celis or a Shiner. But having a beer with bigjohn in Texas sounds like a good place to end up.

Is it time to hijack this thread yet?

Ok, let's just meet at Rick's house and bigjohn will bring the beer & BBQ.

i been keeping up with conversation!! i didnt figure there was too much more i could add to what ya'll had already told him. but my .02 cents..

1. whatever you have to do, make room for the M60s
2. move the water heater anywhere, it will still produce bass
3. sell sectional and purchase one lazy-boy recliner w/heat and massage
4. use left over money to purchase keg fridge, and fill with one 16 gallon lone star keg.
5. invite me over, and sit on the floor as i enjoy your new bad-a$$ home theater while getting a back massage, and drink an ice cold lonestar..

yep, that should just about do it..

bigjohn

Putting the SVS in the corner as you mentioned shouldn't hurt it's performance much at all. (If at all)

Move the sub, and put a pair of M60's on either side of your ET center.

(Did I mention how nice your setup looks?)

You M60 boys, I tell ya.

I have the M22's and I think they produce good bass in stereo only mode (DVD-A in stereo with no bass management sounds incredible on my M22's). But when you add the sub, there really is not that much of a difference. I personally do not want floorstanders, I prefer the look of bookshelves on stands.

Rick,
Do not let the M60 people bully you into buying the M60s. The M22's are still mind blowing speakers. With your SVS, you are getting more bass than a lot of the M60 people anyway.

But hey, if you can afford the M60's, get them.

Also, don't forget to consider the other speakers in Axiom's lineup. (Check out md55's excellent review of the M50s in another thread).

I just bought the M22's, VP150, & QS8's to go with an Outlaw LFM-1 sub. The M22's sound great in my 13x26 room. However, I really wish I could have gone for the M60's - in my case it wasn't space as much as it was the wife saying "I don't want huge floorstanding speakers". In reality they don't take up any more space but I couldn't get over those objections (for now).

So here's my suggestion...go for the QS8's, a VP150, and the M22's now - which (hopefully) doesn't blow the budget out of the water. When the wife gets you to buy a new house somewhere down the road you make sure the HT room is a little bigger and you move the M22's to the back, buy the M60's or M80's from the factory outlet, and upgrade the receiver to 7.1.

That way you keep the budget intact today, you put the money into speakers that can't be moved to another location (QS8's and VP150), and you've got a plan for tomorrow's upgrade (which you know you'll do eventually).

I don't envy your sleepless nights wondering what decision to make...glad mine are behind me (for now). Good luck!

In reply to:

---

I have the M22's and I think they produce good bass in stereo only mode (DVD-A in stereo with no bass management sounds incredible on my M22's). But when you add the sub, there really is not that much of a difference.

---

You must have some interesting room interactions. In our (Peter's) setup, there is a very large difference between M22s alone and M22s + sub. Not that the M22 doesn't peform admirably on it's own, but the sub adds a significant improvement to the low end.

I think he meant there's not much difference between the M22+sub and the M60.

Are you sure all you guys here aren't secretly hired by Axiom to sell their speakers? Especially Ray and Tom..You guys are most suspect of all...LOL

OK I hope you all are happy...after all that arm pulling (suprisingly it didn't hurt as much as I had figured it would)..

2 - M60's, 2- QS8's and a VP150 just ordered first thing this morning. If these things don't make me smile I will personally hunt everyone down here and give each of you a big lashing! No better pass on that some of you might just enjoy that...LOL

After a LOT of thought and consideration from all of your ideas I decided it was like this..

Bite the bullet and buy what I really want now so I won't have to go thru this a year from now. If I had gotten the M22's I was going to have to build stands to put them on thus ending up with a "tower" look anyway so that's why I figured why not get the M60's and not worry about stands. Since I sit about 18' from my TV I knew I wanted the V150 to make sure I didn't miss anything in the dialogue. And to round out the bunch the QS8's - Again due to my room size and vaulted ceiling I decided the QS8's would give me the fullest rear coverage & they would help make sure I didn't miss not having that back center speaker that I have gotten used to since I will loose it by going back to my 5.1 receiver.

Anyway all joking aside, I am sure that the Axiom's will be as much a change for the better and add so much more like I found my SVS to do for the LFE side.

Do you guys pressure ALL the newbies here forcing them to come over to the dark side?

Thanks to ALL of you here for your jokes, advice and suggestions in this thread. It has been a very enjoyable experience and look forward to adding this forum as one of my favorite places to hang out and also help persuade more to join the ranks of owning the best sounding speaker on the planet..

I will be sure and chime back in next week once the FedEx guy comes to visit and let you know what I ended up doing about the placement of my SVS as well as more pics of the final setup. (I will get better pics this time)

Thanks again..
Rick

Hey guys. Did you all get your pay checks from Axiom this month? Mine's late! Rats!

Rick, I have been listening to M22tis, VP150, and QS8s augmented by a HSU STF-2 sub for a couple of months now. While not meaning to disparage the 22s, I felt something was lacking in the lower mid/upper bass range, so I ordered some M60s to replace the M22s. They arrived on Wednesday. In my room, and with my ears (I'm assuming both are different from yours ) BIG DIFFERENCE! The 60s have alleviated any doubts I felt with my former setup. I would be very surprised if you aren't happy as a clam with your choices, particularly if you're actually sitting 18 feet from your TV.

Having said all that, I wish to say to current and prospective owners of the 22s, that as I sit here looking at the box with my 22s packed up for FedEX pickup, I'm in a lot of pain. Axiom allowed me to keep the 22s while waiting for the 60s, AND sent me a prepaid Return Shipping label, to boot (How's THAT for customer service).

During the 6 week wait for the 60s, I came to really appreciate the 22s. They had no trouble filling my room, and for HT I felt they were flawless. It was only with music that I felt something was missing. If I didn't need the money, I would keep them for my bedroom system, with an eye to using them as rear surrounds in a future 7.1 setup. They are really GOOD speakers, and I'm gonna miss 'em.

So Rick, Have no fears. Ya done good!

Jack,

Thanks for your post. I remember reading everything possible about my SVS sub before I decided to buy it. Everyone went on and on about what a difference it made and what a great sound it had. I keep seeing the SAME thing about the Axiom's as well. This is why I feel good again about my decision.

I have found over the years that an actual owners opinions and comments mean more to me than any review made by a magazine or other media. I will buy/use a product quicker from an owner's viewpoint than anything else.

Patiently waiting for the arrival..
Rick

How long a wait do you have? What finish did you get? If you ordered first run speakers, as opposed to ordering from the Factory Outlet, your wait will be short.

It is a requirement around here that, once set up, you must post pics. Everyone here is a closet voyeur.

I don't know about the wait. I haven't heard anyone say what the usual ship time is for them. I hope they have them in stock as I ordered the black first run speakers since patience isn't one my better virtues and the word "wait" just isn't in my vocabulary. I will report back once I get tracking/shipping info for other's future reference.

Oh you can rest assured I will fire up the old camera once I get everything in it's place..

Rick

Rick,

you'll love your setup.

I've had M60's paired with a VTF-2 sub for aprox a month and they sounds amazing after I set everything up properly.

Before Axioms, I would put music on and walk around the house doing things. Now when I play music, I sit in the couch and enjoy. That's how good the sound is!

If you ordered first run, you won't have long to wait. They're usually fast shippers. Unfortunately we're hitting the weekend, so that'll add a little time. But You'll see them early next week, I suspect. Keep us posted

When I placed the order on my M60s it only took three days for me to receive them. And I'm in CA!

I am in Western North Carolina so the travel time shouldn't be too bad. I have company coming in for the weekend so that will help pass the time while I wait..

Rick

So, did we close that deal, or what?!?! High fives all around! Five high-fivin white guys!

Rick, you're going to really enjoy your new speakers. Honestly, those of us who frequent the forums here would not spend our time on this stuff if we were not happy. I'd echo the sentiments of others who observed that the music listening experience is especially enhanced; I hear things I never heard before, and enjoy things more than I ever did. Axioms added a fullness and richness to my audio experience that, on a stupidly fundamental level, really made me a happier person. Well, that and the meds, of course.

Have you told your wife yet? I'm thinking that displacement of that lamp is going to cost you about three grand eventually.

Please do keep us posted on your installation, including pictures. Likewise, please stick around and contribute your wit and experience to the forums.

Good luck with that "patiently waiting" thing. This is going to be the longest weekend of your life.

Don't be shocked if they show up on Monday.

BTW...you said you used your setup mostly for HT, but I'm willing to bet once you have these babies, your music listening is going to increase tenfold.

Tom,

I haven't had a chance yet to actually measure the area in the corner behind the sectional to see if the SVS and the lamp will coincide in the same spot. I think I might really like the idea of it there due to a response I got from a guy over on the hometheaterspot forum. He said:

"I've heard a lot of good things pertaining to subs behind the listening area (where your lamp is). You would also be corner loading which should add a few dB's. If anything, you may even "feel" it a little more since it's closer to the listening area."

We really never use that light anyway but as I said time will tell once I break out the tape measure.

You said: "This is going to be the longest weekend of your life."

No this will be the second longest as I had to wait out the weekend for my SVS..

Thanks again and will definitely be hanging around..

Rick

Spiff..

Monday would suit me just fine!

My wife doesn't work and listens to music during the day while working around the house so I have a gut feeling that she will enjoy them as much as I will.

I think she was kindly skeptical about the SVS when I told her about it but after she saw what a difference it made she smiles real big like I do..

Only one thing worries me..I already have that silly grin on my face from the SVS additon..with the added smile that the Axioms I am sure will create is that really good for your face muscles to stay in that one position for an extended period of time? Maybe the doctor can prescribe something for that..nah..I'll take my chances with the great big smile!!

Rick

before tom does, i'll suggest beer for medicenal (sp) purposes.
dan

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Ray and Tom..You guys are most suspect of all.

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Oh, they are suspect alright.

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hunt everyone down here and give each of you a big lashing! No better pass on that some of you might just enjoy that...

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I suppose someone could setup a poll ....

I'm intrigued by that sub next to the couch idea. How "tippy" is that SVS, Rick? I've got a dog (70lb hyper Calif. lab), and a soon-to-be-toddler. I've been considering a 20-39 pci or pci+ for a little while now.

BigWill,

Yeah I can't wait to try the sub in the corner and see how it does since that will put it within about 6 feet of my usual seating/watching area.

The sub's not really that tippy since the driver and amp are at the bottom thus making it more like the blowup punching clown that I had when I was young. (This is not to be confused with a blow up doll - Ray and Tom I know you were thinking it!)

Now I am sure though if a 70lb. lab decided to host a bull fighting session with it then you might have a problem! Maybe connecting support cables from the ceiling to hold it in place might help..LOL

Rick

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I made an unfortunatre mistake once in a similar vein when I rented the DVD titled "Free Willy" thinking it was an adult movie.

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Were you expecting some whale nudity or something?

(caution, link contains a very "exposed" whale -- consider yourself warned.)

Wow...it must be really bad, because I'm forbidden to see that page!

Mark

OK...am I the only one who actually tried that link? Got the old "not authorized" error message.

Oops, I guess they don't allow direct linking. Here's the real page:

naked whale, take 2

GOOD LORD, PUT THAT THING AWAY!!

your gonna scare the little kids with that.. hell, you are scaring me.

if this is gonna become a beastility site, i gotta go

bigjohn

Nobody forced you to click the link, ya know....

holy *&^$%!

Peter where in god's name do you find these links? You a wealth of bizaare website links.

fark.com, of course. Good for a laugh, that site is.

BigWill,

I have an SVS 20-39 PC+ and two very hyper Golden Retrievers...No issues here as the majority of the weight of the tube is in the bottom third.

I don't think you can use that as an excuse for not getting one...

WhatFurrer

Email recieved at 3:30 with my 5 FedEx tracking numbers..
Now that's what I call same day service!!

Rick

Rick, all things being equal, I believe you could lash the SVS to the lamps with the whale's "equipment". However, if you do run a DVD with lots of heavy vibrating bass, STAND BACK - I DON'T KNOW HOW BIG THAT THING GETS!! I'm guessing that is a sperm whale.

Ray,

Just checked and sure enough - room for the sub AND the corner light. Great the light can now stay put. Once my company leaves Sunday to the corner the SVS goes for testing.

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I'm guessing that is a sperm whale.

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If so, looks like he's got the equipment to get the job done and live up to his name..

I would have never guessed in a million years that the thread I started about buying a set of Axiom speakers would have included a discussion and pic of a whale's privates...LMAO

Rick

Actually, Pete's google talents have turned them into the whales "publics".

Now the whale keeps hitting on the keeper...