Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo M60ti Ultimate review ,part 2...M70's?

Please read my part 1 post [for context],in this section.
Recently, after reading a post on this site,I was disappointed to learn that the Axiom drivers are made in CHINA. I was sure that I had read here...the drivers were made in Canada. As I had said in part 1, I had not shopped
for speakers for some time.Things have really changed in more ways than one. THE main reason I did not buy new JBL'S
to replace my old 3800's,was that they are now made in Mexico. I had been looking at the new Northridge E90's
[399.00 list]. Recently, Best buy had them on sale for....
249.00 each[dollars].Now, if Best buy can sell them at 249.00, and still make money, think how cheap they must be for JBL to produce. I didn't want a cheapo, cookie cutter,
knock-off, of the former USA made product! I was a customer
for life,but they [JBL] blew it.
Many of the other "B&M" [borrowed from this forum] brands
are also made in China, Mexico, etc. This just does not sound like "quality" to Me. I have yet to see a product made
elsewhere be better than the original. Usually same price,
just poorer quality.
Back to the M60's.
Don't get me wrong, I think the M60's,are great, I just hate
to see Axiom " go down this road". I had read so much about all the research, testing, and articles about "the Canada
sound",that I expected the speakers[drivers] to be made in
Canada. Here in the USA, they can't close the factories fast
enough,so they can make their "Brand name products" elsewhere.
It does matter you know, if "they" make everything in other
Countries,most of us won't make enough money to buy speakers.....[plus lot's of other things] anymore.
Anyway, back to Axiom.
What I would like to see happen,would be the "adding" of another speaker line. Keep the existing line just as it is,
the products,service,web site, etc....... but add an 'Elite
line". Just for an example, let's call it a M70.
Something like this: real wood veneers,1" tweeter [upgrade?]
5.1/4 mid driver,two 8" drivers [all made in Canada?].
More rigid grille frames, please no plastic "chicken wire"
in front to deflect sound waves. heavy gauge wire inside speaker, metal tags, and emblems,etc. This is just an example of what might be possible. I KNOW the speakers would cost much more,but the new line would have huge selling points, and put to a end the nit-picking by some.
There are plenty of companies selling "entry-level" import speakers, and the high-end "exotic stuff",these would be in the "middle range".
I believe Axiom is on the verge of being one of the "famous
speaker companies", no more "deer in the headlights" looks when You tell someone about Axiom speakers.
I plan to someday, buy more speakers.... at that time I would like to take one more step up.....I want more Axioms.......Elite M70's???
Build them,they [$$$$$$$$$] will come!

Thank you.

I would like to hear other ideas on this subject, and see what others out there think.

When it comes down to it, i think the majority of us would rather stick to the vinly veneer and plastic emblems and the standard wire. I used to think this might make a difference but i wouldnt pay more for it.

I agree, haole. However, it is unfortunate that the drivers are made in China. IMO China is the worst country on the planet.

And why would that be...

Here we go again...

Now, I think Rwanda or any of the Balkans are probably worse...

i personally would 'feel' better if i knew they (the drivers) were made in canada, right there on the building with a big Axiom Sign on the front.

But all of my other gear is made in china, with the exception of the sansui tuner which is made in japan, and my bottlehead which is made in hawaii I guess that as long as they are having something built to spec, it shouldnt matter where its made.

Oh, BTW. the jbl stuff is really junk, mine started falling apart on me. (ND310 first version) i had to open up the cabinets and glue a bunch of stuff in there to stiffen em up and keep em from coming apart.

I find this kind of post disturbing.Quotes like this are borderline racism:
Many of the other "B&M" [borrowed from this forum] brands are also made in China, Mexico, etc. This just does not sound like "quality" to Me
People may harbour ill feelings towards other countries, possibly for very valid reasons (e.g. human rights), but if all this post is referring to is the QUALITY of materials made in other countries, then statements as such are rather ignorant.

Axiom has a factory in China. It is Axiom owned, Axiom run, with Axiom trained staff. The drivers they make are designed by Axiom and tested in Axiom labs (both in Canada and for QA/QC in China). What does it matter if Axiom can make the drivers cheaper in China and have them shipped back to Canada?
Are they lesser quality?
If so, then why is Axiom getting all these rave reviews about their speakers?
Moving that factory to Canada will not improve the build quality of the drivers and if you think it will, by all means, tell us how.
Canadians do not automatically make better speaker drivers than Chinese.
Americans do not automatically make better cars than the Japanese.
Such notions are utterly ridiculous.

I very much like to buy products made in Canada just as much as the next patriotic citizen. And so i do.
I bought Axiom speakers, a Canadian company, that hires Canadians for work, uses Canadian (and U.S.) made materials in their products, who hires other international folk in countries perhaps less fortunate than our own and my dollars have still gone towards a Canadian firm.
I will be buying an Anthem amplifier relatively soon. It is also a Canadian company. Do i care whether the screws inside are made in Taiwan?
No.
I'm still buying a Canadian product.
Take a look under your favorite Ford F150 "all American" truck next time and the odds are you will see at least one Chinese made part.

As for the rest of the 'ideas' being presented, i can only partially agree with one. Wood veneer finishes. I would consider buying a wood veneer finish but for $200+ or more, i would probably still opt for the vinyl given the amazing array of choices compared to wood. IF Axiom were to decide that revamping their factory was worth the effort to supply customers with such an option, they might, but most customers are more than happy with the present price point for the Axiom speakers.
The philosopy of Axiom is obviously misunderstood with these suggestions of adding useless "upgrades" (thicker wires?, non-plastic grilles that stop bullets?, fancy name tags and emblems?). All this adds up to more cost for NO increase in performance or sonic benefit.
Axiom is a company that has a philosophy for making a solid, well researched product that the average consumer can afford. There is a REASON why they DO NOT add all that crap into the speaker. It keeps the cost down and it is by far the biggest advantage Axiom has over many of its competitors.
They don't use worthless frills to sell speakers!

I think Ian's philosophy is an excellent one and i hope he never succumbs to the grandiose expectations of self professed audiophiles and what they believe are important necessities in a quality speaker.

Well said chess.

well said!!!

The point makes sense, except for the "favorite Ford F150 "all American" truck" part. Any self-respecting American will tell you the all-American truck is the Chevy Silverado. But I guess you can't expect a Canadian to understand that...

In all seriousness, it was a good post.

Well said Chess

jr

Post deleted by axiom

Apparently your sig doens't apply to others. That was uncalled for.

As a footnote, I don't necessarily agree with BigWill. But I would put a country that doesn't inform its citizens or the world of epidemics occuring in one of its provinces in my top 20 list of bad countries.

is this turning out be the most ugliest thread ever.....this better END here......

its is a great forum and lets not soil all over it.....

This thread certainly did make a really bad turn somewhere. In general the amount of politically charged posts have been way up around here lately. Let's try to stick with audio.

Yes, please let's end it here.
It's not the kind of thread that will encourage newbies, like myself, to hang around this forum.

Greetings,
It is a simple fact of life in a market economy that labor plays a significant factor in the cost of conusmer durable goods. The Chinese economy offers western manaufacturers a labor pool that is unmantched in this hemisphere. I work for a consumer products manufacturer with extensive Chinese suppliers, and I can attest to the fact that the quality in China exceeds what we were able to achieve domestically. It's sad, but true...I'm sure the results in speaker manufacturing are the same as in my industry...the country of origin usually has no bearing on the quality of the product produced by a reputable manaufacturer. The key to the equation is "reputable manufacturer"...
b.

My feathers are not easily ruffled, friend. I'll just add you to the long list of people who dislike me.
Without going to any great length, China is a country of great significance due to many factors. Rwanda, Sierra Leone, Myanmar, etc... are not significant to the rest of the world in any way other than, "Boy, wish we could help those people," or, "Boy, sure am glad I don't live there."
My earlier statement regarding China should not have been taken as an indictment of the storied Chinese culture or of the Chinese people. But, the gov't of China has that country on a course which should alarm all of us, regardless of your politics.
To say that China is the worst country on the planet hardly seems controversial to me - unless you want to argue for North Korea.

Why would you say that Big Will? Just because the enormous gulag prison system for dissenters, misfits, etc., is financed in large part by the sale of prisoners' organs? Oh, the fact they sell livers bothers you, because each of us has only one of those guys? Or maybe the fact that the gerontocracy supports the lunatic regime in North Korea? Oh, oh, maybe because Chinese officials threatened to drop a nuke on Los Angeles when Clinton sent the fleet into the waters between Taiwan and the mainland?

On the other hand, just about everything we buy is now from China. Almost all consumer electronic equipment including some very high end sound equipment comes from China. Clothing, china wear, kitchen utensiles, furniture, audio racks, lighting fixtures, knick knacks, it's all from China. The Chinese culture is brilliant, it has always had a certain problem accommodating the individual in any capacity other than mulch, and obviously their driver training program needs revision, but the hope is that the prosperity which follows the fact that China is now the world's production facility for making stuff, will drag the government into the light. Hope so, since their economy will the largest in the world in our lifetimes.

You didn't answer my question...read my post.

You don't need to have been to a place in order to have an opinion about it. China's recent policies regarding human rights are a matter of record, and do not have to be experienced first hand for one to have an opinion about them.

Your post says that saying China is a bad country without having been there is like you calling another member an idiot without meeting him. Then you dropped an F-bomb on another forum member because you didn't like his opinion. Well, all I can say is, "If the shoe fits".

Mark

Oh my!
Why can't people go five minutes without arguing?
By the way, there's an apparently unfamiliar board feature called the "Private Message." People should use this when mentioning a subject sure to enrage other board members, as well as prospective Axiom buyers. I hope these potential Axiom-ites do not get a bad impression of Axiom and this otherwise wonderful discussion board as a result of the aforementioned argument.

It seems to me as if no one here even reads the forum RULES anymore...

Only one post in this thread, IMO, violates the rules. Which one should be obvious.

I normally stay out of these sorts of things, as I feel it is usually best not to feed the trolls, but one post in this thread got out of the realm of expressing an opinion, and into the realm of a vile personal attack. Just because you replace a couple of letters with asterisks doesn't get you off the hook.

This poster crossed way over the line, and I think he/she should make amends

I'm done arguing...

Peace out.

Think globally, drink locally. Support you local brewer, vintner, speaker manufacturer, etc.

Man, a guy does not check his forum home all weekend, and misses all the fun.

I prefer to spend my income in ways that help support living wage jobs in my community. Now, how you define "community" sometimes depends upon the purchase. I've virtually given up trying to boycott Chinese products (although it still pains me), but have been successfully avoiding Wal-Mart for many, many years.

Industries differ widely in how "locally" components are manufactured. In context, Axiom seems to strike an appropriate balance between economic realities and commitment to their community.