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#421464 - 12/13/16 06:02 PM HT Room - Advice on Speaker Selection and Layout?
jmone Offline
devotee

Registered: 01/08/06
Posts: 310
Loc: Sydney Australia
I've sent this following to Axiom on a new HT install, but the more advice the better:

Plan : http://jmone.org/owncloud/index.php/s/x98p1DxM9z8xySY/download


"I'm also now looking at a new set of speakers as well that I will need a quote on. It is for a Home Theater Room and I'm tinking about the following 7.1.4 Atmos setup with some custom work for the front speakers due to depth issues:
- Pair of In-Cabinet M80 but they can only be 250mm deep
- In-Cabinet M180 but it can only be 120mm deep (eg like the depth of the custom on wall you sent me last time but with the In-Cabinet face)
- 4 x QS8 for Rear and Surrounds
- 4 x In Ceiling for Atmos
- All will need to be paintable
- 1 or 2 Subs (not sure what model for this size room, or maybe just a EP800 ???)"

Thanks
Nathan
_________________________
HT:M80,VP150,QS8,EP500 Outside:4xM3 Office:AudioBytes, Rumpus: M60,VP150,M22 Portable:2 x Airs

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#421465 - 12/13/16 06:04 PM Re: HT Room - Advice on Speaker Selection and Layout? [Re: jmone]
jmone Offline
devotee

Registered: 01/08/06
Posts: 310
Loc: Sydney Australia
...also should I look at direct firing speakers instead of the QS8 as 3 of the 4 can be located on Shelves (with the exception of the one over the Sliding Door).
_________________________
HT:M80,VP150,QS8,EP500 Outside:4xM3 Office:AudioBytes, Rumpus: M60,VP150,M22 Portable:2 x Airs

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#421467 - 12/13/16 06:34 PM Re: HT Room - Advice on Speaker Selection and Layout? [Re: jmone]
Mojo Online   content
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 4861
Given the dimensions of your room, I would advise against QS8s. Bipolar speakers will serve you better.

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#421468 - 12/13/16 06:36 PM Re: HT Room - Advice on Speaker Selection and Layout? [Re: jmone]
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 6136
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By jmone
...also should I look at direct firing speakers instead of the QS8 as 3 of the 4 can be located on Shelves (with the exception of the one over the Sliding Door).


1. What kind of distance will you have between surrounds/rears and listening positions ?

(a few feet suggests QS*, direct firing becomes more acceptable at greater distances based on the bit of experience I have)

2. My impression (not at all confirmed so I'm just saying this so you check) is that in an Atmos system people seem to be looking at direct firing for surround/rear as well.

(I stress I'm not at all sure of this, just that I have seen a couple of people talking about trading in QS for direct in the course of Atmos-fying their systems)
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#421471 - 12/13/16 07:31 PM Re: HT Room - Advice on Speaker Selection and Layout? [Re: jmone]
jmone Offline
devotee

Registered: 01/08/06
Posts: 310
Loc: Sydney Australia
Thanks for the responses, and it seems most recommend Direct Fire, so I'm guessing M3???

I'd say the rear to wall to seating will be about 1.5m, but all surrounds are going to be positioned way above the "ear" height (in fact above the doorway height at say 3m on a shelf). The other option could be On Wall M3?? and angle them down to face the sitting position.
_________________________
HT:M80,VP150,QS8,EP500 Outside:4xM3 Office:AudioBytes, Rumpus: M60,VP150,M22 Portable:2 x Airs

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#421473 - 12/13/16 09:51 PM Re: HT Room - Advice on Speaker Selection and Layout? [Re: jmone]
TroyD Offline
aficionado

Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 613
Loc: Bridgewater, Nova Scotia, CA
For an ATMOS system they do recommend direct firing. Specially with the QS8 firing up wards and the rear ATMOS firing downward on it.
NicBuol has done great research on this and very informative. He has a awesome setup you can probably see most on the posts on his HT here.

I would suggest going with atleast EP500 duals. I have EP350 and in a room 11.5 x .15.5 x 8 and one doesn't cut it. I am even considering three or four.
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Anthem AVM30
Anthem MCA50
M22v4
VP160v4
EP350
EP500

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#421475 - 12/13/16 10:46 PM Re: HT Room - Advice on Speaker Selection and Layout? [Re: jmone]
nickbuol Online   content
axiomite

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 5338
Loc: Marion, IA
OK. I'm not even supposed to me online right now (doctor's orders as I am supposed to be prepping for a sleep study), so just a couple of quick thoughts that I am more than happen to expand on later.

Direct firing is ideal for all speakers in an Atmos setup. This does not mean that you can't have good success with some awesome QS speakers, but you need to be able to "plot points in space" which means having straight firing sound from every speaker in order to plot those different points. Diffused sound from quadpole speakers is not good for this. Even bi/di pole aren't great, but some have their uses with multiple rows of seats, but still direct firing is how the system was designed for home use.

Speaking of seats, where are they going in the room? Based off of your Atmos overhead speaker placement in the diagram that you linked, you are sitting smack dab in the middle of the room. Audio likes things in thirds. I would move your seating so that it is about 1/3 from the back wall, or obviously, 2/3 from the front. Adjust your overheads to form that Atmos "box" evenly around your seating area, and then push your side surrounds back a little as well.

When pushing those side surrounds back, don't be afraid to having them slightly in front of the seating area. For me, I have mine about lined up with the middle (from front to back) of my reclining seats. So about even with my head when sitting up. We ALWAYS recline, so when reclining, they are now just slightly in front of the listening area. Works a lot better than when they were in a traditional surround placement just behind the listening area.

Also, put your side and rear surrounds down to just barely above your ears, or as low as you can go without them being blocked by seat backs, or heads from people sitting next to you. This will give you more separation between the surround speakers on the walls and the elevated overheads.

Lastly, be cautious about corner loading your subwoofers. You will "excite" more of the modes of the room, but you will get more "boomy" bass. I know that you are limited by a fireplace, windows, doors, etc, but having one up front in the middle (right where the fireplace is at) and one in the middle of the rear wall is best, or one in the midddle of each side wall. Again, I know that this won't work, but I just want to mention it. For me, I ended up with my 2 large subs up front, originally about 1/3 from the left and the right walls, and then I did some room tuning and tweaked their actually locations literally by inches until I got the response I wanted. So maybe under the windows (as long as they don't rattle). If they have to be in 2 corners, maybe look at the front 2 corners, and try to sneak them away from the walls/corner as much as you can get away with.

Alrighty, time to go to sleep before I get in trouble. LOL.
_________________________
2-M60s, VP180, 8-M3s, SVS 20-39PCi, DIY Sub, 8-Shakers, JVC RS45, Anthem MRX-1120

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#421476 - 12/13/16 11:24 PM Re: HT Room - Advice on Speaker Selection and Layout? [Re: jmone]
jmone Offline
devotee

Registered: 01/08/06
Posts: 310
Loc: Sydney Australia
Thanks - Have a good sleep! FYI, this is a dual purpose room so I will have to make some compromises.

I've updated the Pic in the OP to show the seating position (from what has been described to me by the designer anyway) and changed the location of the speakers slightly, but:
- I have flexibility in moving the 4 x IC speakers anywhere
- I have flexibility in moving the 4 x Surrounds except for the height but they will NOT be at ear level (about 3m off the floor) but I can angle them down
- I can put a Sub in either or both of the positions marked

The physical build will not be till late Jan / Feb but I'm keen to get the equipment ordered so the builders know what to deal with. From the Feedback so far I'm now leaning towards:
- Pair of In-Cabinet M80 but they can only be 250mm deep
- In-Cabinet M180 but it can only be 120mm deep (eg like the depth of the custom on wall you sent me last time but with the In-Cabinet face)
- 4 x M3 On Wall Angled Down for Rear and Surrounds
- 4 x In Ceiling for Atmos
- All will need to be paintable
- 1 or 2 Subs (not sure what model for this size room, 2 x EP500 or maybe just a EP800 ???)

Thanks
Nathan
_________________________
HT:M80,VP150,QS8,EP500 Outside:4xM3 Office:AudioBytes, Rumpus: M60,VP150,M22 Portable:2 x Airs

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#421478 - 12/14/16 10:21 AM Re: HT Room - Advice on Speaker Selection and Layout? [Re: jmone]
nickbuol Online   content
axiomite

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 5338
Loc: Marion, IA
Yeah, I just wanted to tell you the target to shoot for. We all have to make compromises somewhere, but if you don't know what the ideal is, then you may be compromising something that is already a compromise. smile
_________________________
2-M60s, VP180, 8-M3s, SVS 20-39PCi, DIY Sub, 8-Shakers, JVC RS45, Anthem MRX-1120

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#421487 - 12/15/16 12:24 AM Re: HT Room - Advice on Speaker Selection and Layout? [Re: jmone]
jmone Offline
devotee

Registered: 01/08/06
Posts: 310
Loc: Sydney Australia
Thanks for that (I get it), just trying to work out what models to use where.

Also forgot that while my current AVR (Yami RX-3060) is 11ch, it only has 9 amps... so I have to either get another 2ch amp or implement:
- 5.1(or2).4
- 7.1(or2).2

Any suggestions which would be the better config for this room?

Thanks
Nathan
_________________________
HT:M80,VP150,QS8,EP500 Outside:4xM3 Office:AudioBytes, Rumpus: M60,VP150,M22 Portable:2 x Airs

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