Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners M2 vs M3 computer speakers

Hello all.

I bought a pair of M60s for my home stereo about 4 years ago, and I could not be happier with them. I'm currently trying to move on from some pretty basic computer speakers, and I do not want another 2.1 system.

I'm very interested in the M2 or M3 speakers for computer use. I see the M3 has the 6.5" woofer that the M60s have, and the M2 has the 5.25" mid speaker also from the M60s.

These are physically big speakers for my desk, so I'm trying to avoid the M3s if I can, but many people on the forums say the (bookshelf) M3s are superior to the M2s.

Anyone have any experience in this area? I'm worried the M2s wont have enough low end, and the M3s might have too much. I may just demo them both and send back the pair I dont want, but thoughts an opinions are appreciated.

It's a crap shoot. You may find you like the M3 sound or you might not. I have the Audiobytes paired with a cheap sub and I love them!

I personally would rather have more linear bass at the expense of reaching lower and going louder and improved midrange. If that sounds like you, ask Axiom if the M2 beats the M3 for linearity.

Hi, I have first hand experience with the computer M2s. They are nice speakers for moderate volume. Bass response will depend on your desk setup. I purchased the M2s knowing they would be placed inside a writing desk. The boundary effect produces lots of perceived bass. Enough to make the desk vibrate at louder volumes. If you are looking at a more wide open scenario M3s might get the nod.

So, what is your setup like? Thats how I would recommend deciding. I wouldnt get hung up on how they load a room. You are sitting close, and honestly, any computer EQ will allow you to make them sound how you like, within reason.

I appreciate the responses.

My computer setup is all one big desk, as in, everything other than wires is on the desk surface. So the Axioms would just be to the left & right of my monitor. To that end, I'm not sure I would turn the speakers up all that loud. With my current setup, I have the speakers set to about 30% of max when I'm sitting at my desk (but that's with a speaker system that claims its 200w, so they are super loud).

I think Mojo makes a good point, I'm not really looking to get the deepest lows possible (or I would just get a sub).

While I am looking for great audio performance from games and computer audio, there is one other thing I should mention:

I play bass, and I learn just about everything by ear. I use my computer as my playback source. Many times I'll struggle to hear the bass line from my current speakers, but then put on my Grados and poof - there's the bass line. But headphones make it hard to hear myself playing, so I'm hoping these speakers will help bring out more bass separation, but not to the point where it booms.

Thanks!

The lowest note on the bass guitar is 28Hz. Neither the M2 nor the M3 will get down that low and remain linear. In fact, very few speakers will.

You are best off to go with the M1 and buy yourself a sub that can hit 28Hz cleanly. That's what I did with my audiobytes and as I said, they sound great! It doesn't have to be an expensive sub. Mine was $150. You might be able to find a good used one.

Hey Mojo,
You are incorrect there. The lowest note on a standard electric bass or a stand-up bass is 40 Hz, well within the range of the M3 or, with a little bass boost added, the M2.

The 28 Hz you cite is the lowest note on a standard concert grand piano.

Alan

Mojo has lost his Jomo lately, lol

I'm sorry I didn't explain myself correctly.

I'm not trying to match the actual bass frequencies, I'm just trying to hear the bass player. I need separation more than matching bass tones. On my computer speakers, there are many songs where no clear bass comes through the 2.5" main speakers, and the same with the sub, except for really low frequencies. The same song on headphones or my stereo with the M60s, the bass line is quite clear.

This issue does not happen with every song of course, I'm just hoping to improve the situation.

Alan, when I did my research to answer this question a couple of years ago, I discovered it is 28Hz for 6-string bass. I wanted to know because I didn't want to pay for deeper bass than I needed for my 2.1-channel room.

Randy, I am not the one blowing gear up, dude...LOL!

P.S. I can no longer find the reference that told me 28Hz. This reference says 31Hz for six-string bass...and 28Hz for piano and keyboards.

https://www.studybass.com/gear/bass-tone-and-eq/bass-frequency-range/

spark, pop, pop

The 'B' string on my 5-string Electric Bass is approximately 30Hz.

On Xmas day, I played TELARC's 'The Many Moods of Christmas - Robert Shaw, Atlanta Symphony Orchestra & Chorus' CD (CD-80087) through my tube amp to my M2s on FMS Stands in my living room. I previously had never heard them without assistance from my EP-400s. This time I did not fire up the subs but just sat & listened to this dynamic & glorious CD for a while.

This vintage CD (1983) is comprised of many Xmas favourites that are performed by a large symphony orchestra & choir. I must say that I was quite astounded by the 'full, smooth' sound that these diminutive speakers produced on their own. I couldn't believe that the EP-400s weren't in there doing their thing.

I'm now more impressed than ever with these little guys...

TAM

Yes, I'll grant you the six-string bass has lower frequencies. But the majority of bassists--rock or pop or classical players-- play the standard 4-string bass, which is why I didn't get into the non-standard models.

On the subject of the grand piano, there is a special model, the Imperial Concert Grand, made by Bosendorfer, an Austrian builder now owned by Yamaha, which has additional keys added in the lower bass, so that the lowest note is around 14 or 16 Hz. It has 97 keys, rather than the standard 88 keys. The piano is not commonly used in concert or for recordings, and the fundamentals of the lowest notes are weak-- so the 2nd harmonics (28 Hz, 32 Hz) are stronger and any speaker capable of some response to those frequencies gives a convincing account of the lowest notes.

Alan

I would think that if you got the M2 they are far more flat but fall off with the lower frequency tones. The M3 have the ability to carry the lower frequencies, but will get a bit more muddy in the mid tones if you push the volume. But as you said. You are playing these not at high volume, so I doubt that you would ever exceed the 6.5" drivers ability to create the mid tones, but gain in the surface area to make the lower tones.

just my take on it. I have the M3 but have not tried the M2 so I have no point of reference.

Hi FosterCO,
This is a somewhat confusing notion you describe about "not matching the bass tones". The very nature of "high fidelity" includes, ideally, loudspeaker response from the lower limits of human hearing (about 20 Hz) to the upper limits of hearing and the musical spectrum (around 15 kHz).

If you want to hear the electric bass line, then you want the speakers you are using to provide reasonable bass extension to 40 Hz with some output down to 30 Hz. It's easy to do in good headphones like your Grados, but not so easy in a compact speaker (or one with tiny drivers, which is why the tiny speakers in your computer don't output deep bass).

I have the M2s, and if they are sitting on your desk, the bass reinforcement of the desk will help the M2s to produce a good account of the bass line that you'll be able to hear, given that the bass line on the source material is well recorded and mixed. Lots aren't, even on modern recordings. The M3s have an artificial bass "hump" built into their response, and, as Mojo pointed out, they can sound a little muddy or bloated on male vocals at higher volume. The M2s are very linear, with no exaggerated "hump" in the bass frequency response.

So, to summarize, if you want to hear the bass player you are trying to "match" the bass tones. It has nothing to do with separation.

Regards,
Alan

Nicely said oh aged but wise one!

Alan - well I'm not really a high-end audiophile, so perhaps I am not understanding/making any sense to you learned fellows.

I guess I didn't fully understand the initial comment towards me that I would need a speaker that can do 40Hz in order to hear all the bass tones. Maybe I'm still not understanding. In my mind, the counter to that statement was that currently, on my little 2.5" speakers, I can hear and learn basslines from about 60-70% percent of songs I try. So I didn't understand why I would need bass response that low. Perhaps the exact tone/frequency is not produced by the speaker, but an Eb is still and Eb (except when its a D#).

Anyway - I re-bent some cardboard boxes to the size of the M2 and M3s. The M3s are just physically too big for the situation. So I am ordering some M2s. If I really don't get what I'm looking for - there's always the return program.

Thanks all!

An Eb is an Eb with distortion that may not be the best thing if you are learning by ear. In any event, if you had 2.5" speakers and were satisfied 60% to 70% of the time, I think you will be happy with the M2s. Let us know when you get them.

I guess it depends a bit on presence of harmonics in the signal from the bass. I find I can make out bass notes fairly clearly on speakers that have dropped *way* off at the fundamental frequency... that surprises me a bit though because I would have expected relatively few harmonics from an oscillating string. Maybe the pickups add harmonics ?

After all these years it's hard to believe I have never gotten around to plugging an electric bass into an oscilloscope.

The problem at hand is not if a particular speaker can make a note, but more to how efficiant that process is.

A set of headphones can make a whole array of sound as they are dealing with very little air that needs to be moved and a small distance between the diaphragm/cone and your ear drum. Pull a set of headphones away from your ears and all of a sudden the sound that was great becomes very tinny and hollow. The small speaker that once worked now doesn't.

The M2 is a great speaker and has more than the ability to produce a whole range of notes. The further you are away from the cones, or the more that you are required to crank up the volume, the ability of the speaker becomes more apparent. The M2 is a very flat response speaker. The M3 has a bump at the bass end as it uses a larger cone and it has a certain sound it it. Some like it better than others. Some actually like the sound of Bose speakers.

Who farted?

mojo

I didn't fart. That was my Bose 601 series III.

I got the speakers last week, and I spent a decent amount of time trying them out this weekend. Overall, I like them. They are such an improvement over my old speakers, as of course one would expect. Music sounds great, and game sounds really come through now. Its such a huge improvement its hard to describe exactly how.

However, it only took me a short while to know I should have gotten the M3s. There's not quite enough low end in the M2s for me (but I still don't want subwoofer low). I've contacted Axiom on how best to accomplish this.

Some other thoughts:
- They are loud. I don't run them too loud while I'm at my desk, as they are close to my ears. I really don't need this kind of volume in a computer speaker, but I suppose its good for when I'm working downstairs (my M60 setup is upstairs).
- The volume knob is not located in a convenient location, so I'm having to control levels using the horrible Windows mixer. Sometimes not that big deal, but sometimes a bit of a pain. Should have realized how much I used the volume knob on the old speakers.

And lastly a question - I have the speaker volume knob at about 50%, and I have the source volume in windows set to anywhere between 5%-35%. So - is it better to run the source volume louder and turn the speakers down, or vice versa? (Or is 50-50 best?)

I was lucky when I ordered my computer speakers that they were still in development. I initially reasoned as you likely did and placed the order for the M2s. Then about 3 days later, thought it out a bit more and changed the order to the M3s.

Yes they were bigger speakers, but I buy for sound.

As for your question of setting levels. The windows volume control is all digital and is just upping the bit level loudness to get more volume, or in your case, cutting the bit levels to make is sound less loud. This works sort of but reality is that at low volume levels you are cutting off huge bits of sound data as you can't digitally represent quiet sounds and compress the digital volume level. Think of taking a CD with 16 bits of sound. If you cut the sound level requested in 1/4 then any data that falls in the first 3-4 bits of sound are either lost or the sound levels are severely distorted.

The speakers have a volume control on the back that is Analogue. It is taking the digital sound and applying a voltage to it. if the input is from a distorted signal is then amplified making the wrong sound worse.

However if you do it the other way around and have windows running at 3/4 volume, I think that is equivalent to line out. Then have the speaker volume set to low, then the source is not distorted just the amp in the speakers are really adding little to no additional voltage and the speaker produces a correct representation of what it was intended.

but that is just my take.. worth what you paid for it.

Any chance your desk is against a wall and you can simply slide the M2's back towards it?

FosterCO,

Does your laptop have access to any equalization, or does the amplifier have tone controls? The M2s will accept a gentle amount of bass boost, perhaps 3 dB- 5 dB, without complaint, and since you are doing "near-field" listening and not playing the M2s really loud, that amount of bass boost should help reproduce the lower bass tones without muddying up the midrange.

Regards,
Alan

MatMan- thanks, thats what I was looking for.

brsaw - yes the desk is against the wall, but putting the speakers back will put them behind the monitor, and I wont have direct line of "listening".

Alan - My computer (a desktop) does have a basic equalizer, but that does not work the way I'd like it to. When I up the bass frequencies 3 to 6db, what really seems to happen is that the treble is decreased a proportional amount to make it seem like there is more bass. For example I was trying out the EQ while playing a game, and raising the bass frequencies any amount caused the rain sound in game to simply go away. Remove the bass boost, and the rain sound came back. That's not acceptable to me. I was recently told about an EQ program called "PEACE", but have not tried it.

I'll post again when I have an update.

Here's a quick update:

Tried the PEACE equalizer program. I was able to boost the bass a little, and was enjoying that sound when I realized what my real problem was - the speakers were way lower than the horizontal plane of my ears. I put them on 6" boxes and proceeded to freak out at how good the sound was. It reminded me of the first time I heard my M60s. The bass is there, I don't need the EQ now at all. There's amazing sound staging and clarity. I'm blown away.

I did hear back from Debbie and Axiom will let me try the M2s and M3s side by side, so I will post again in a few weeks after I try them both out.

The M3 speakers arrived and I am trying them side by side with the M2s. It makes me chuckle to walk into the room and there's 4 speakers surrounding my monitor.

I'm still trying to decide, but so far its coming down to exactly what you all probably thought it would - the M3s have the lower bass I wanted, but lack the upper mids, which of course the M2s excel at. I want to see if I can EQ the M3s to have a little more upper mids. I want the bass drum of the M3s and the snare of the M2s. I was wishing I could get an enclosure with all 3 speakers, and then I saw the M5 bookshelf speakers. Now I'm thinking of going with those and a separate amp. Not sure, they are big.

Additionally, I have the following feeedback on the M2 and M3 computer speakers themselves. I apologize if this seems critical. Its not as if these speakers aren't awesome.

1) 75 watts seems far far too much. Anything above 1/2 volume on the speaker dial is simply too loud, even if I'm out of the room (I just use the M60s at that point). I would think 40 watts would be enough.

2) Because of the wattage, the volume knob is extremely sensitive. Just a simple 1 mm turn produces a massive swing in volume.

3) Like a lot of powered speaker pairs, the speaker with the power amp (the left one), is slightly louder than the slave speaker, and the sound stage is a little left of center. I can use the balance to mostly overcome this, but its not my preferred solution as I'd need to adjust it every time I switch from speakers to headphones, or back.

4) Volume knob not that easy to get to as its below the USB cable input. Granted once I have everything setup right, I'd probably not need it much, but at the same time, it would be great if it were more accessible, or remote controlled. A button to instantly mute the speakers would be nice as well.

More to come.

The M5HPs are going to rock and no one should consider buying an M3 or M22 when they are available.

It doesn't sound right to me that the slave speaker is not as loud as the main.

Isnt the crossover in a three way speaker designed with a minimum distance for proper summing and baffle/boundary compensation? I'm not sure m5hps are the answer for a desktop. I think most 3 ways are designed for 2m plus listening distance. I'm not sure.

I would suggest to fosterco to EQ the bass down on the M3s instead of putting a bump into the midrange. Just a couple db. Chances are reducing th bass and consequently any room overhang will improve perceived midrange clarity. Play around and let us know what you find out.

I would put the M2s upside-down on top of the M3's, wire them in parallel, and call it a day

Maybe a new larger monitor is the answer?
You could push them all back and spread the speakers to keep the ideal triangle...

HA, I already have a giant 32" monitor. I'll try moving the speakers back, but right now I have almost no space as the M2s and M3s are both on the desk.

I tried lowering the bass on the M3s. Its hard to tell if it really gets the mids of the M2s, because I have to level the EQ before I switch over to the M2s. I think its one of those things that I'll stop noticing when I stop switching between the M2s and M3s 20 times per song.

I have two questions, both about speaker distance. First off, I am very interested in knowing the required distance of the M5HPs. I was thinking of using a 30 or 40 watt/channel amp with them. If this is a viable setup, that's what I'm going to do.

The second is about the proper M2/M3 speaker distance. They are about 3.75 feet apart, toed in, and about 3 feet from my ears. I don't crank the speakers, but I want to make sure this isn't so close that I'm damaging my hearing.

Funny thing...we've had our towers cranked and you couldn't really tell it was stupid loud until you tried to talk to the person beside you or you left the room and came back after a short time. It has to be a decent recording though, crappy recordings, well enough said...
Try an app on your cell phone. It'll confirm a) the actual volume. b) your actual listening preference for the volume and c) which speaker you like best at THAT volume.
I wouldn't worry about distance to your ear causing damage with either of those but the volume will ruin your hearing over time (if it is in fact too loud).
I would expect distance to matter much more with the M5 because of the extra driver. I'd assume a minimum of 6' distance to sound their best.

Hi FosterCO,

Have you thought about using the M2s with a subwoofer? We have the EP100 http://www.axiomaudio.com/ep100-computer-subwoofer which should give you the combo you are looking for.

Ian, thanks for the reply. I really do not like subwoofers. Granted I have not tried Axioms, but in experience, I get far more "sub" frequencies than I want. I don't use one in my home theater either (as the M60s give me exactly what I want). But I will keep it in mind.

Debbie is going to kill me if I don't send back one of the pairs of speakers soon, so this is my last observation. Using an EQ, I am basically able to get the tone I want from both the M2s and M3s. The real difference is in soundstaging. The M3s have a very flat soundstage. For lack of a better description, the music sounds like its coming from the speakers. Whereas the M2s have a much more pronounced soundstage. The music sounds like its coming from about 3 inches in front of the speakers. There is a "3D" effect to the sound almost.

Due to that, I cant decide. I think the overall sound is better from the M3s, but I love the "pop" of the M2s and how it seems almost 3D. Are there EQ settings that would produce this effect in the M3s?

Dirac has a 2 channel trial that you should look at . Graphic EQ is a bandaid at best , you need something that creates a filter and an ability to use peq, a parametric eq would be a better bandaide.

Does the soundstage get better when you move further back from the M3s?

Mojo - there is a slight change, but still nothing like the M2s.

Foster: You have discovered the magic of the diminutive M2s.

I found this some time ago in my tube driven/SACD music only system; however, I added a pair of EP-400s (one per stereo channel) for use in a rather large room.

Sonic nirvana for me.

I also have a pair of M3s in that same room but set up differently - widely spaced in opposite corners for ambiance duties. I had to plug the ports to control the bass reinforcement caused by their corner locations.

Both do the job admirably...

TAM

Try bumping the 2-4 KHz range a couple of dB.

I finally made my decision, and I've gone with the M3s. Several factors played into this.

While I mainly use these speakers as computer speakers, they are the only speakers I have downstairs. As such, the M3s were better sounding in "the other rooms downstairs" than the M2s. But this is a real minor need.

Instead of rapidly swapping between the M2s and M3s, I decided to give each speaker a full 3 days of use. The M2s ARE awesome, no doubt about it. But even after EQ, I could never get the sound quite right. The M3s are a little too boomy, but that's easily dealt with by changing the EQ curve. I was also able to get some mid-pop as per Bridgmans advice.

Lastly, I discovered the M3s have the nice spacial effect/soundstage that I liked in the M2s. The M3s were not the correct height. When I'd intentionally slouch in my chair, my ears were the same height as the top of the 6.5" speaker. This produced a much better quality sound than I realized. That really sealed the deal.

I debated going up to the M5s and getting an amp, but I just didn't want to keep messing with this. When they make M5 computer speakers, I will probably trade up.

Congrats Foster,
M3 were my first Axiom speakers still love them today.
Great little units.