Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners VP160 vs VP 180

I have a VP150, older model, from 2005. It is no secret I've considered it my weak point in my system. I'm wondering if the 160 would be "enough" or should I go to the 180. Room is only 20x13 8' ceilings. My problem with both is having to use stands. The 180 is really big, 17" deep is real estate. Granted I have M80's, also 17" deep but the VP150 fits nicely. But the 180 is 4ohm. I am starting to hate 4ohm speakers. Every time I upgrade a receiver it means getting the bigger one to handle 4ohm. I only have a Denon x4100 handling the center, rear, and top fronts as is. QS8's and M3 in ceilings, VP150.

So has anyone heard and compared the 160 vs 180? not that it matters but why is the vp160 only 250 watts, and the vp150/180 400 watts?

Strictly movie use.

The 160 will do everything you need and more. I would not worry about the "only 250 watts" - with good amplification, you will never have a problem with having too much power.

You will love it.

My 160 is simply great - accurate & articulate. My Audyssey 'hears' the -3 Db point in my room as 40 Hz; however, I did have to buy a whole new AV Stand to accommodate it...

TAM

Thanks. Looks like my trade in for my old 150 isn't even worth the effort. If I can find a buyer locally and maybe grab a b stock 160 in black I may jump on it. I'd love to get real wood though. But black only makes sense in my front projection theater with all black speakers.

Another vote for the 160 here.
Was running mine through my receiver for the last couple years totally awesome. Picked up one of the 3 channel ADA1250s on the sale now with it hooked up to the ADA it's totally phenomenal, hits way lower {the wattage rating is just a guide line} as Axiom test the speakers with 2 or 3 times their recommendations

Plus with your M80s the larger center looks and blends so nicely.

Yeah I just got to get rid of my 150, and decide if I'm sticking with black.

I know, once u go black... But not sure if I want real wood or not....wait a minute, that sounds horrible.

ummm, I'll shut up now.

waiting for my 160 to arrive. Was suspose to arrive this week.
Had the 180 and when I moved to this room, 11.5 x 16 I just could not get it to blend correctly. Got the VP150 and finally the voices are coming from the tv or well atleast it seems like.
however, no comparison the 180 was deeper and better.

I am hoping the VP160 brings back some better mids and bottom end

From a logical and conventional point of view the VP 160 should yield the best center channel experience. My own center channel is like a combo of the VP160 and 180 and it work great and the VP 100 just doesnt come close though its imaging is quite good and even being on top of my 60 the voices seem to emanate right out of the screen. I think the central located tweeter surrounded by mids is the best way short of having a vertical center.

Troy, let me know how u feel about the 160 vs 180. There is a 180 in b stock now but I am thinking it is overkill for my room

newf, how big is your room ?

I wouldn't be surprised to find the VP180 too physically big (driver separation) for TroyD's room (although it might be OK if speakers were on the 16' wall) but in my ~20x20 loft it's great.

To answer the question of the power ratings, the 160 has a single tweeter vs the dual tweeters of the 150/180. The single tweeter can't handle that much extra power. In our rooms the single tweeter is more than enough.

I did compare the 180 to my 160 and the differences are negligible. the 160 has better horizontal dispersion while the 180 hits a little deeper, provided a little more guttural feel to it, but really getting nitpicky with the depth differential.

Did you find the better horizontal dispersion to occur at the widths of the room (i.e. could reach out to a wider seating configuration) or did the VP160 exhibit less lobing across all seats? There's a lot of "discussion" on the various forums about the VP180s dual-tweeter configuration causing lobing, resulting in a comb filtered response across the horizontal dispersion pattern. Has anyone actually experienced this? I know Axiom's stance is that this isn't a practical issue and can only be measured, and therefore shouldn't be an issue for listeners. I don't know enough to make any judgement. Personally, the VP180 aesthetically matches the larger speakers better, which works for me

Thoughts?

I've never noticed any lobing with the Vp180 nor the old VP150, just a drop off in db off axis. The VP160 has no issue with off axis performance, at least not in my room.

When the VP180 came out the first thing I did was crunch some crude numbers looking at (a) the frequency range covered by each pair of drivers and (b) the separation between the drivers and the resulting lobing when moving sidewards.

My conclusion was that the driver placement (choosing which drivers to go far apart vs close together) was as close to ideal as I could figure out, and based on that I immediately ordered one. The only comb filtering I have noticed so far was with my original VP100, and that was only really noticeable on a single track (Return of the Giant Hogweed if you want to try it).

That said, I'm *really* glad the VP180 and VP160 did not come out at the same time, or I would probably still be trying to decide which one was better.

I got lucky and bought the VP180 before hearing about the VP160

Thanks for sharing your experience and conclusions. I was mildly concerned before (even though I ordered it), but now I'm not concerned at all

Pretty sure I'm going with 160. Room is 12.5'W x 19.5'L with just 8' ceilings. I have two rows, second raised. 120" screen with center below screen. Originally center was above screen, sounded much better, but as many know, it fell ( really thick carpet saved it), screw pulled out of back of speaker after 5 years of being there, and tore screen. So, now it is below screen (I could not get the same screen material again....was freak'n pisssed because it was so much better than what I have now) but of course the second row is having issues hearing vocals even more. Heck even the front row is.

I've got M80's and two subs up front, so just aesthetic wise the vp180 would be too much I think, and like I said I'm moving away from 4 ohm speakers.

Yeahhhhhh newfie! You'll love that, dude!

Sure, it actually shipped today. I am told they have a new system and working out kinks so it didn't get shipped last week.
Yes, when I had the VP180 upstairs in my living room, 13 x 24 and open to the dining room. I sat around 14 ft from the front. I had no issues. I moved downstairs to this room I am setting up as a movie room and I tried everything but put it in the tv.
I changed the height I changed the angle up and down. but it still sounded like coming from a foot under. Anyways, the VP160 will be here Friday, However, I am going to a Mooseheads hockey game so will post Saturday sometime

Well, it arrived today. Haven't had much chance yet to do much of anything but, holy crap watching Alien vs. Predator and difference between VP150 and the beast is night and day.
detail detail clarity is above, way above.
I just removed the VP150 and sat this in the same spot. Haven' tweeked it any but, it seems to blend pretty good, think a bit of tweeking and I'll get the imaging sound stage. Whereas I could not get that VP180, struggled with that one.

So far I am so glad I discovered this one. Don't hesitate to grab the VP160

Sorry, got to run Hockey game starts shortly.

Almost makes one think the vp150 should be shelved. Retired. Makes me wonder why axiom had the vp150 as thier top end centre speaker up until recently ( 160 and 180 ) while other company's like paradigm, energy, Polk, etc etc had 6.5 inch woofers in thier centres YEARS before.

Thanks for update Troyd

160 ordered. I never got the stand so I'm still figuring that one out. I think I have an idea how to do it neatly with my setup. I got tons of time to figure something out, but I'm certainly curious to hear it. Still gotta sell my 150 too.

I went from a 150 to 180 years ago and love the change so far

I got my VP180 just about 2 weeks ago. No joke that this thing is a beast. Bigger than my M60HP's. I got a b-stock one at an amazing price, less than what they are right now. Kinda wondering if I should have gone with the 160 after reading some of this. It replaced a VP100 On-Wall. No comparison there.

The VP180 is an amazing center channel. My only regrets are that I could have probably saved a little money and had another amazing center channel in the VP160. It just wasn't an option at the time.

So you will still really like the VP180. I am VERY happy with the 180 that I have.

as am I, ARC makes it sound amazing.

They are both great speakers. I am not a pro but, just found that closer to the centre channel I prefer the VP160. When I was upstairs in a bigger room and 5ft further away, te VP180 was amazing. Thats the issue I had, I am 10 ft away now. and it goes low enough that the cross over cuts in

Mine will be here late next week. Assuming no more winter storms. The waiting...it kills me.

I just got in a a VP160 to replace a 13 year old VP150... Not sure why I waited so long to replace it other than being stubborn and hard headed...

-pd

I think I found a peerless mount that can hold it. Good for 100 lbs, so I'll still have the floating look the 150 had or mostly. This is a big center so this will be interesting if works. If it does fail, it's only about 20" off of thick carpet floor. A simple box slightly underneath it until it earns my trust and we shall see.

A mount to hold the VP180? What model?

not the 180, the 160. Peerless ps200.

Speaker is here! Thanks Ian and Debbie. Of course my mount is not...Newegg delayed it...grrrr. But I'll toss it on a box and try it but doing proper setup with mic thing might have to wait a few days. Of course I'm working again tonight too.... I love the fact I even have a job in this economy but me wants to play with toys!

So, definitely an improvement over the 150. Was late last night before I could try it. I couldn't do the Audyssey setup yet so it's really not fair to judge anything yet. My mount should be here today, but my back is out so I'm not sure if I'll attempt it tonight.

It's certainly bigger than the 150. The woman is not happy. Even with two large subs and M80's next to it it's obviously big. Personally I don't mind it. If anyone is wondering the Vinyl on the V4 speakers, black oak, is a perfect match for the vinyl SVS P2k sub....I mean perfect. Oddly my Black oak M80ti's have a little different vinyl and seem flat in comparison, but it doesn't bother me. I have other V4's in the house so I sorta expected that.
Adjustable legs on the bottom are handy. Can be removed.
Now that I have the thing, I can see a better way to mount it. Before I bought it I was dreaming up idea's on how to do it. My Vp150 used the full metal bracket and had this cool floating look to it. No stands....loved it. I thought maybe multiple FMB's across the back might do it, but you couldn't use the standard screws, you'd have to drill a hole through the back of the speaker, and use a thicker bolt and washer through the hole into the FMB. Two FMB's and must be into studs. Speaker is 30" Across and lining up studs with the FMB's would be tricky. Even then, the speaker is 43 lbs, and I'd imagine a real wooden finish worse again. It's not so much the weight, a single FMB can hold many of Axiom's speakers up, but the depth of the 160 is the issue. Someone would have to crunch the numbers but because it sticks out so far, I'd imagine the weight at the bracket point would still be quite a bit.

Then it got me thinking. TV mounts. But reverse it. If you have ever mounted a TV the first thing you do is mount the rail to the wall, then the two brackets (not sure what to call them) onto the TV. then you lay the brackets onto the rail, and can slide it back and forth to center it. Well, if the VP160, even 180 had the rails on the back the full length of the speaker, and the brackets went on the wall obviously into studs..tada...speaker mount that should be plenty strong enough. You could slide it left/right to center, and the entire weight of the speaker would be spread across the wide rails on the back of the speaker.

My Peerless, which might not work, is basically a shelf. We shall see if it's strong enough soon.

Congrats Newf,
The 160 is an awesome unit. When I got mine a couple years ago had a shelf above my T.V. already for my previous center channel a little Klipsch C20, No way was the 160 going to fit on the little shelf I had.

Wound up getting a new entertainment center.
Hopefully the stand or shelf is sturdy and big enough.

HI all looking for advise on two items ,First Looking at upgrading Vp150 v4 to VP160 or VP180 .Looking at M80s or M100s.I presently have 4 QS8s .AVR Yamaha RX850. and looking at the ADA1250 .My room is 17'x18' x7' I listen to a lot of assorted music and of course movies .Any help on the above would be greatly appreciated.

Bob M

Welcome to the forum. Just an FYI you will get alot more attention if you start a new thread rather than in a current thread. As to your inquiry,do you plan to implement ATMOS, though with 7ft ceiling i would think not. Do you have a sub or plan to add a sub , if not then i would say the M100's HP and depending on how much room you have, the VP160 would fill the bill and is very well liked and respected.Are you using a projector or HDTV and how far away do you sit and how many rows of seats. I would say with what you have a 7.1 setup would be your best bet. I also would suggest powering the front 3 with an ADA and let the receiver take care of the rest.

Yeah what he said. But welcome aboard.

Meanwhile. I took the legs from the edges and put them in the middle where the Axiom stand would attach. Why? Because the legs were too wide for mount. The peerless mount is technically an a/v equipment shelf so it has holes for the legs.

This forum and my phone..argh. couldn't paste 3 pics in one post. Anyways. The shelf had adjustable legs. You can tilt them up or down. I might actually remove the axiom legs and let it sit straight on the mount so you can't see the mount as much. But that'll make it slippery. Right now I'm more curious to see how the mount holds. It's good for 100lbs

So center is done. Now to get rid of my qs8's and get some m3 on walls. Praying for good v4 ones to show up in the refurb area lol. I need two for now then I'll trade in my vp150 and qs8 for two more. T

Yes 7.1 set up I have a sub viewing 13' from TV 65" Panisonic PLASMA HDTV No plan for Atmos .So M100 And 160 ?would be your choice . what our your thought on the m80s?Yes new feeling my way around .

Thank you for the response

Bob M

Newf, check the B stock list, page 2! The finish may not be right...

I have M80's with 2 subs crossed at 80 hz and i am quite happy though i may be looking at making a couple mid bass modules, im a bass glutton. Either would be good , though in your size room if you can swing it i would go M100 . The VP160 imho is a more conventional design for a sub so it would be my choice. Its deeper than the vp180 but not as wide.

Newf is that sturdy enough? its looks a bit narrow and scary maybe just hte pics. Is that a fixed frame screen and did you make it yourself.

stilljoe - thanks but looking for v4 in black oak.

Socketman. If you have ever seen a vp150 attached to wall with a fmb, it has some wiggle to it. So does this. Of course if someone leaned on it, it would tip over. But I have no kids. Technically, there sre holes for screws where the legs rest, so I can actually attach the speaker onto the mount so it'll never come off. Of course, I noticed this AFTER I got it done tonight. I haven't even run Audyysey yet, my back to bad to mess with it anymore. I got it mounted, took a while to get the angle I wanted. I'll leave it until tomorrow night. I could,this sounds aweful, spread the legs open more, it'll go like 18" I think. That can make it sturdier too but even as is, I'm fine. But it's only 14" above thick carpet. Would I do this over a tv...HHAHAHA god no.

My Screen is a DaLite High Power. It is fixed frame, perma snap or whatever they called it, I just covered their ugly frame with pine to match the room. I had my concerns with a light color around the screen, but the wood disappears in the dark. I never varnished it, it has no glare either. I had a better screen before, but I had a VP150 mount fail, the 150 fell, and tore it, and the screen I had you can't buy anymore. Then they changed the High Power too so while it's a good screen material, bright, it's not as good as my old one at all. No more putting centers above expensive screens for me.

Yeah , cant say i blame ya , that must have been absolutely heart breaking. I am just considering building my own scree so i figured i see what your using. I think if it was me i would at least put one screw in just for peace of mind but thats me, i worry alot.Nice looking room though, perhaps one day i will get that far,baby steps.I would be there if i didnt have kids, but there goin out the door a fast i can make em.

It's so close to the floor. How does it sound?

Have you tried a lower cross over?

It looks soo big, lol.

That's what she said.....

Dimensions of Mount fyi

Watched hacksaw tonight. Pretty impressed with 160 so far.

Good movie , lots of centre channel info, should have been a nice improvement. Some of the gunshots were over the top out of my QS8's

We watched it tonight as well. Very awesome native Atmos soundtrack too.

WOW that's one heck a heavy front loaded speaker to have on a tv stand. However some are good up t 200lbs but that weight is within 2" of the wall plate. most of the weight with the 160 is out front with all the drivers. I'd be scared they would rip the screws out of the back eventually

specially when they are placing those M100's about 3" into the room. Chews up real estate fast

thanks now you gave me a great idea. I gotta look for own of those.

As for putting those legs in that speaker. Whynot get those rubber feet you can get that stick on the bottom of dining room chairs. The ones that stick then stick them to the stand arms and place the speaker on them.

3"?
Must be a typo....

Its on my must by list.

thats what she said

3ft