Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater MC's Basement HT

Thanks! Yeah, I'm not a fan either...lol. I might even hire someone for the trim work, haven't decided yet. However, I did decide on painting the doors black. I think it will help to tie everything together.

So I spent a little time this morning reading into Atmos again. 7.1.4 or 7.1.2 is out of the question as not having a left wall forces me to mount my sides and rears to the ceiling. HOWEVER, it looks like 5.1.4 is a real possibility, as the surrounds are placed in the rear corners. I can easily place two bookshelves on stands behind my seating area without them getting in the way. I can then install the four height surrounds in the ceiling with the separation I need from the regular surrounds.

What do you think? Do you think 5.1.4 would be a better experience than 7.1? Have any of you experienced both of them to make a call? I only have experience with 5.1, 6.1, and 7.1...lol.

I've read that 5.1.4 is "better" than 7.1, but don't have any experience with it.

That being said, I wouldn't go by that image from Dolby. There are a lot of other "real world" tweaking and testing that people have done. Normally in a 5.1 setup, the surrounds are on the sides, but Dolby does have that right by putting them a little further back, although you could argue that their diagram is misleading as the speakers are closer to the 110* mark, if not a hair more but their line makes it look like they are in the middle between 90* and 110*.

So that is good still where they are at. I would nudge, ever so slightly the rear overheads in a touch and forward a smidge. In more than forward. Still keep them behind the listening area, and outside to the right and left, but closer to being more overhead (I said "closer to" not "make them overhead").

Next I would bump the front overheads (Speakers #6) closer to the fronts. This will allow for better DTS:X playback as well as help to "fill the gap" between the main front soundstage and the rest of the speakers.

Minor tweaks, but it is workable more so than a 7.1.2 setup.

Thanks Nick. I'll try calling around the local electronic stores and see if any of them have an atmos demo setup. I called axiom and talked to a women from tech support for awhile and she said she hasn't experienced atmos, but prefers the QS8s over direct firing surrounds. However, I know that is against Dolby's suggestions. Man, this decision is harder than I thought. Too many options...lol.

Well yeah, for "regular" surround, the QS speakers are an amazing design.

There's a couple people here in this forum that have their Qs still as the lower surrounds in their systems with quite good success.
As from what I've read on Atmos. the height is the most important as a monopole. Due to the making of a "bubble" or a more vast prime listening seat. With the over heads directed towards the general area it supposedly can make a whole couch the prime zone.

I myself am still going from monopole to the Qs10 with my 7.1 finally!

Nicks suggestions are all pretty much on mark from my experience. Actually, take his adjustments, and take a second couch and put it behind that couch in the picture and you have my setup. My ceiling speakers were not put in line with the fronts due to pot lights, and hvac, and other things in the way. They are closer to the couch and it works well.

MY setup is 5.1.4 (technically i have 3 subs) but I am using qs8's. For now. The reality is my amp can't do 7.1.4 and until the new hdmi spec is out, I'm not replacing it. The QS8's work well with a two row setup in 5.1.4 because you can put them between the two rows, and they fire at both. Matter of fact, I'd consider this better then using direct firing in a 5.1.4 setup with two rows because in a direct firing 5.1.4 where are you putting the rears so both rows can hear them? Ideally with two rows you want 7.1.4 all direct firing and that is my goal by end of the year....have some other more important life stuff to take care of first.

My experience with a 5.1.4 setup is do not put the front tops too far away from your seating position. For some reason most movies don't mix to the fronts as much as the rears. I find I had to bump the volume on my fronts way up just to hear them right. Axioms new aimable tweeter design certainly helped too.

Anyone new to Atmos will be quickly shocked at how little most movies even use the tops. Deepwater Horizon just came out, and is a great Atmos movie that uses the tops correctly. San Andreas is a movie that sounds great, but there is almost no top sounds at all. Big discussion on AVS about SA. Many said I was wrong, then I said sit and listen with just the tops on and there is a few sounds in the beginning, then like 30mins passed and nothing, then another little blurp....and more silence. Studios are still figuring out Atmos.

The most important rule of Atmos though is put all your speakers at ear level. It flat out doesn't work if your ceiling and surrounds are close together. Oh and I have no experience with the up-firing modules, did not even want to waste the time and money to try.

Just a "quick" note as it is 3:30am and I really should be in bed.

I've never heard anyone say that the overhead speakers in Atmos are the only ones that really are important for Atmos.

Again, my suggestions are to hit the "best optimal target" from there compromises have to be made for just about every room. Some people ARE using QS speakers for the bed layer (not overhead) speakers and having what I would call an "improved experience" with Atmos vs. without the overheads, but it is still a compromise in what Atmos is capable of.

Think of it this way. You have lasers instead of sound waves coming out of monopole speakers and you can get very accurate placement of sounds within a 3D space with lasers. Now replace 2 (or 4 depending on how many QS speakers) of those single directional lasers with 4 lasers each pointing into 4 different directions each. You can somewhat pinpoint some sounds, but you are also spraying into 2 or 3 other undesirable directions. It just messes with the 3D placement. Not impossible, because you still have other correctly oriented lasers helping to drive the location in the room, but the "noise" from the "QS spray pattern" that is so great with traditional surround sound is messing up the accuracy of what Atmos is trying to do.

Again, it is a compromise, and yes people are doing it and really liking it, but it isn't that they are liking the QS speakers in an Atmos setup, they are liking the addition of 2 or 4 precise overhead speakers being added to fill in more of the soundscape in their room. Little do they know that they are not hitting all of the potential.

Also, the idea of putting a QS speaker between the 1st and 2nd row of seats on the left and right side was something that I toyed with too. It seemed like a great way to have a single speaker play back side surround information to both rows, however you are still spraying sound up and down in that scenario which again isn't ideal. Since Axiom doesn't make bipole speakers (the only type that really would fit that scenario) and the quadpole is spraying everywhere, monopole is still the ideal path.

But again, compromises are made every day and people can still have an enjoyable experience.

Thanks for the info. I am going to have the same issues with my pot lights. I may have to place the speakers in less than ideal locations. However, the bigger issue is how I am going to mount them. My tiles are soft fiberglass. I can maybe screw some strapping to the sides of the speakers and mount them to the joists. Not really sure, it's another issue I have been thinking about.

Your statement about the tops rarely getting used also makes me wonder if it's worth the trouble. It would be a lot easier for me to mount four QS8s on the walls near the ceiling. I can then do 7.1 instead of 5.1.4.



Thanks Nick! What do you mean by bed layer? Are you referring to the back four channels in a 7.1 setup? Are you saying people are playing Atmos over a typical 5.1/7.1 one setup without any additional top speakers? If that is the case I can test that out in my living room. I recently upgraded to 4k and picked up a Vizio P series and Denon X3300. That receiver supports Atmos. I can stop at BestBuy this weekend and buy a few Atmos enabled movies and give it a try. My living room is 6.1 and I have the QS8s mounted on the ceiling, it's very similar to what I was planning to do in the basement. I imagine I just change the speaker types in the settings? It's worth a try at least.


On a side note, I managed to get a few things done over the weekend. I came up with a solution to my clean out plug. Found a flush sitting compression plug and ground down the concrete a bit. I then cut a small circle out of plexiglass to put over top. The whole thing sits perfectly flush with the floor and the vinyl planks will go right over top. When I need access, I just pick up the plank. I am planning to do the same thing with my back sump pump. However, the sump pump has a plexiglass lid, so I had the welding instructor at my school make me one out of 1/4 stainless steel plate. Should be ready tomorrow. I can then lay the vinyl right over it and remove it when I need access. Sooooo happy I found that non-glue/non-locking looselay vinyl plan. It solved a lot of small issues for me .



I painted the doors. I was unsure of the black at first, but I like the way it came out. I think it ties the ceiling with the walls together. Not sure if I will paint the trim white or black though. I'll see once it gets installed.



I installed the rack as well. I was nervous about my clearances as I never really done construction of this level before, but thankfully it fit like a glove. I made a quick gif of its slide out and rotation feature. It's going to make wiring nice and easy! Besides that, floors are getting installed this Thursday. Can't wait to see how they come out!

"Bed layer" is basically "everything but overheads" so all of the speakers in a 5.1 or 7.1 or 9.1 setup if you ignored the overhead Atmos...

The term Bed Layer is also applicable to DTS:X and Auro 3D speaker layouts, and in those configurations is again anything in a traditional surround setup without any "height layer" or "overhead" speakers.

Nice progress by the way.