Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo AV receiver vs. stereo Amp?

Hi guys,

Many suggested me to test AV receiver vs. stereo Amp for below reasons:
1. My NAD 3556BEE only has 80W power, no Sub pre-out. So I have to run full range on my M22s even though my EP500 is very powerful.
2. AV receiver could create/restore more realistic music for better experience.

I did a test today but not satisfying with the results.

Got a second hand Denon AVR 1802/882 and run M22s and sub. However the receiver couldn't generate the same level of detailed,warm, controlled bright sound especially on the high range. The sound is not bad in general and at least better than my expectation. But certainly not as good as the stereo amp. I set the receiver with pure stereo, tone defeat mode. Use the same CD source.

What is your experience and suggestion? Maybe I should use a more expensive receiver? I am thinking to connect receiver front pre-out to NAD line-in to see if there will be any difference.

Thanks.

Whoa, welcome to the slippery slope

Dumb questions to start with:

1. IIRC there are some modes ("Pure Direct" comes to mind) where not only tone controls are disabled but also the DSP processing which generates low-pass subwoofer output and high-pass mains output. Are you fairly sure you were not running one of those ?

2. When you say "... bright sound especially on the high range..." does "high range" refer to "loud" or something else ?

I have a different take on it. Your NAD will have a better amplifier inside of it. With a torrodial power transformer. I am going to guess that it is some sort of digital amplifier inside but likely has some analog domain inside it as well.

The Denon is pure digital. So you are loosing out on some of the warmth that you are use to with the NAD. I found from my own experience that every receiver that i have bought since 2005 have sounded empty. All except the last unit, the Anthem. That however cost far more than I generally paid in the past.

I don't know if the digital domain gets the same sound when it is done on the cheep.

Perhaps you can describe what you are trying to achieve with this testing? The NAD is a solid unit, albeit without all the bells and whistles. I used a 7240 for years driving Axiom AX3's and later M80's with an EP350 to great joy.

If your trying to get the M22's and EP500 to work within the frequency ranges, I originally connected my 7240 to the High Pass inputs on the EP350 and then ran cables to the M80's. The sub acts like an AVR would by setting the limits on frequency passed to the downstream speakers.

This required extra cables, but worked well. Not sure if the newer subs still offer this capability.

I would test it again to see if all DSP is disabled.

High range to me means high frequencies, not loud.

Still wondering if a more expensive receiver would make more difference.

Currently considering to get a used Pioneer Elite Receiver Model VSX-21TXH 400 W for another try.

Good point. I could feel the difference between pure digital and hybrid digital and analog.

EP500 doesn't have a high pass out for downstream speakers. So I may have to use AVR or get another AMP to separate the frequencies.

Maybe Ian or another member with a EP500 can confirm....you should be able to twist the cable ends together at the EP500 and not need an "output".
Run your left and your right cable to the sub, join the ends of these cables with the ends of the cable needed to reach your speakers by twisting the ends together, insert and tighten. Once for the left, once for the right.
Set your crossover using the subs crossover adjustment/knob.
Remove any extra equipment, try with just the Nad and a player of choice as per the recommendations given.

I doubt that crossover of the sub would do anything to filter the low frequency when just simply twist the two cables. The reason is that the signal you pass to the speakers is exactly the same you get from the amp since they don't pass through the sub at all.

I maybe wrong:)

Hi guys, this was discussed recently over in this thread .

Just scroll down to JohnK's and 2x6Spds posts which have great info on bass management and what signals go where.

I looked at the pictures of the 500 on here, and it accepts high level inputs. You connect your NAD to those, then from those to the M22's, which is what brwsaw was mentioning

That will work, but as I learned in the other thread i linked to, full signal will be sent to the M22's this way. You'll get the benefit of the sub, but you won't 'free up' any low frequency load on the speakers. (it's not a high pass filter)

With exception to the cross over, which wouldnt be used in this case, it will work.
Assuming his listening preference aligns with the power available he should have a fully functional system.

I run my M2s & EP-400s this way.

From what I understand, the M2s were designed roll off naturally & gracefully in the lower end.

I never hear anything nasty out of this system...

TAM

good info indeed talking about subwoofer connection. Wondering if anyone had done the comparison between conventional and speaker level connections. There are also other interesting ways on http://www.mapleshadestore.com. Have you tried them?

Rock, you're basically correct on that point. The confusion caused in even some veteran audio enthusiasts by the mislabeled "crossover" control on some subs(unfortunately including Axiom subs)continues. Subs have no internal crossovers; the control is simply a low-pass filter which rolls off the sub response above the selected frequency but can have no effect on the mains, which continue to have to attempt to play the full range. This is the case regardless of whether the mains are connected through the sub.

Yes, as mentioned, but it was across different amps NAD - speaker level connections, Yamaha - sub out and direct speaker level.

It would be difficult to say definitively that one is better, primarily due to the differing nature of the amps, but the bass was solid, and of course the M80's produced more bass without the filtering of the amp.

I am not sure this would help, as the M22's are a different speaker in terms of bass output when they are run full range compared to the M80's