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#426198 - 08/02/17 02:25 PM Amplifier or new receiver?
Avi Deshpande Offline

Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 165
Loc: SF Bay Area, USA
I recently sent my VP150 and got a new VP180. Now the setup is M80s , VP180 , EP350 and QS8 powered by a Denon 3300. Recently a new puppy joined the family and went about chewing the speaker cable, thus making a driver blown on a M80 (fixed by Axiom now) but the receiver also seems to have suffered and that channel does crackling sounds. I tested with another old receiver and the speaker is good. So i am in market for a new receiver or amplifier. Can i add a new amplifier and still use the processor on the Denon? What are the experts recommending?

Appreciate help.

Samsung 65" 8500, xbox 360
Sunfire AV7702
Marantz AV7704
Sony UBP-X1000ES
M80s, VP180, QS8s, EP350

#426200 - 08/02/17 02:36 PM Re: Amplifier or new receiver? [Re: Avi Deshpande]
nickbuol Offline

Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 5392
Loc: Marion, IA
Most receivers have output options for those with external amplification.

Your Denon 3300 is no different.

Looking at the back, there is a Pre-Out section just above the CENTER and SURROUND [R] normal speaker outputs. You would just use those connections and let the Denon do the processing, and have the amplifier power whatever speakers you have it connected to.
2-M60s, VP180, 8-M3s, SVS 20-39PCi, DIY Sub, 8-Shakers, JVC RS45, Anthem MRX-1120

#426203 - 08/02/17 09:43 PM Re: Amplifier or new receiver? [Re: Avi Deshpande]
Gr8_White_North Offline

Registered: 07/12/09
Posts: 2281
Loc: Whitehorse YT
You could get a 2 or 3 channel amp to run the front speakers and use the denon to handle the rest. Have a look on Canuckaudiomart or ebay or Axiom if you want new. ADA 1000 will be plenty.
DOG is GOD spelled backwards.
What others think of me is none of my business.
M80 V3 MY GLOSS Cherry

#426243 - 08/07/17 02:19 AM Re: Amplifier or new receiver? [Re: Avi Deshpande]
brwsaw Offline

Registered: 10/12/12
Posts: 1985
Loc: Canada
I have a ADA1000 BUT a new receiver would be first on my list now. They've come a long way in last little while.
Having a dedicated amp for my L/R/C really helped too though.
If your ceiling height will allow atmos speakers I'd go that way.
My drunk $0.02.
Seymour XD AT screen with 144" diagonal image 12' from the MLP
PT-AE8000 projector 14'6" from screen

#426315 - 08/09/17 09:05 PM Re: Amplifier or new receiver? [Re: Avi Deshpande]
Cohesion Offline

Registered: 03/27/12
Posts: 286
Loc: Maple, Ontario, Canada
Which would cost less, a new receiver or an external amp? Personally I use external amps but I have the HP versions of the Axiom speakers and enjoy the higher output levels that are possible with this arrangement. However, in your case I suspect that the standard versions of the M80 and VP180 might be the limiting factor. Thus you might actually save some money by replacing the receiver!

#426372 - 08/14/17 02:04 PM Re: Amplifier or new receiver? [Re: Avi Deshpande]
TDIPablo Offline

Registered: 04/04/17
Posts: 140
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario
It really depends on two things: budget, any plans to upgrade to ATMOS?

If the answer is "I don't want to spend much money and I'm not ready to spend money on ATMOS": get a decent 2ch or 5ch USED amp on whatever local used market website you have (kijiji, craigslist, ebay, etc...). I'm sure in the SF Bay area you can find a Rotel RMB-1075 for under $500 or even some Emotiva XPA's for even less. Having the added dedicated power for your M80's will probably open them up too as your Denon is 105wpc?

If you have been thinking of upgrading, the equivalent new AVR-X3300W is about $1k and then you will need 2 new speakers for ATMOS and an extra sub :-)

Unfortunately, going Pre/Pro is expensive as I'm unaware of a inexpensive pre that can do ATMOS. Emotiva's XMC-1 Pre starts at $2500! and Outlaw audios pre doesn't do Atmos.

If you stay 5.1... get yourself used 2-ch amp that can to 300wpc :-)

#426552 - 09/08/17 05:39 PM Re: Amplifier or new receiver? [Re: Avi Deshpande]
Troy_32 Offline

Registered: 04/06/17
Posts: 4
I have a similar question so I thought I would post it here.

Some Background:
When I moved into my house a few years ago, the prev. owner left some Mirage AVS-200 surround speakers on the wall and 4 Bose outdoor speakers on the second floor with all of the cables terminating at the spot for the main tv receiver downstairs.

The basement room is generally terrible for a home theatre setup (IMO):

The basement room is awkwardly shaped, about 900 sq ft with 8ft acoustic drop ceiling and a curved staircase that opens up part of the ceiling to the second floor. There are several drywall protrusions and alcoves for a bar area and doors for 6 other rooms, a hallway, and a gas fire place that all confuse the space. The best place to put the TV is between two pieces of wall that each protrude about 2 ft into the room (essentially a 50 inch TV fills the space between the two wall protrusions), on one side is a floor to ceiling gas fireplace and the other is the start of a hallway). I know some pictures would help but I have not figured out how to post any yet.
Since we had a lot of other stuff to spend money on with the new house, I wanted to use the existing speakers and I didn't know much about home audio so I bought a relatively cheap ($399 CDN) Pioneer Elite VSX-42 Receiver (80 WPC) and a Klipsch 10Ē 175W sub and just ran the system with the sub and the satellite surrounds only. I know, I know, I had other things going on and we didnít watch a lot of TV.

Fast forward a couple years and my friend shows me his Axiom Air that he bought on the kick starter. After learning that in Axiom there was still a purely Canadian company that actually builds their speakers in Canada, with free shipping, I decided I didnít need to look anywhere else for audio speakers. I was considering buying the AA when the price change was announced earlier this year where CDN prices would be going up. So I decided to load up on an AA, a pair of M60s, a VP-160, and an EP-350 (good sales idea Axiom, I know I wasnít the only one that pulled the trigger then). I kept the Mirage surrounds and hooked everything up to the Pioneer VSX-42.
The speakers / sub have been fantastic! While that 10Ē Klipsch could produce bass I didnít realize how sloppy / muddy it was until I acquired the EP-350. The bass from the EP-350 is fairly loud and powerful but what stood out the most was hour TIGHT and clean (musical?) it sounded by comparison. The M60s and VP 160 sound great, producing clear highs and good bass on their own. My worry is I am not getting all they can offer because of the low power amp in the receiver, and that they are all crammed below that TV in the space with the centre only having about 2 inches of clearance between each of the floor standing speakers. While I donít think there is much I can do about the placement of the speakers for now, I am getting the upgrade itch.
MY Question
What are thoughts on purchasing an ADA 1250 3 channel amp for the M60s and VP160 vs a more powerful, better sounding receiver and some QS4 or QS8s? Initially, I was looking at the Marantz SR7011 but I donít think I am going to invest in ATMOS until we move to a different house with better home theatre setup options. So buying a high quality used pre-ATMOS receiver sounds logical as recommended by TDIPablo. I am still regretting not going for the EP 500 initially so down the road I think Iíll be investing in 2x EP-600s (who know look like the CDN dollar is turning around again too). With a 2 year old and a 6 month old, I donít get a chance to crank it that much right now anyway.

Any thoughts from the community?

#426553 - 09/08/17 06:27 PM Re: Amplifier or new receiver? [Re: Avi Deshpande]
MatManhasgone Offline

Registered: 05/06/14
Posts: 1087
Loc: Lost in the great wide yonder
If you ask me, you would be totally wasting your money adding any external amp to the current receiver you have. You will gain nothing as the signal it puts out is the limiting factor.

I have tried a multitude of amps hooked up to an array of different lower end receivers from Yamaha through Pioneer and even tried my luck with a Marantz. It wasn't until I threw in the towel and spluged to by myself an Anthem that like a light switch being suddenly turned on, the sound out of my speakers came to life.

Now I will admit that I got some incredible sound out of my really old Nakamichi AV1 but it's only good as a 2.0 sound system as it doesn't even have actual base management.
Anthem: AVM60
Axiom: ADA1000, LFR1100, VP180, QS8, EP500, M3, M3comp
AudioSource: Amp One/A

#426554 - 09/09/17 10:11 AM Re: Amplifier or new receiver? [Re: Troy_32]
BBIBH Offline

Registered: 01/10/02
Posts: 1337
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By Troy_32
After learning that in Axiom there was still a purely Canadian company that actually builds their speakers in Canada,

Partially true, search the board for more on this. Unless things have changed - and they may have - some drivers are not made in Canada.

If you are in the area, you can drop in and visit Axiom. Ian is a great guy and always accommodating. Search this board for many visits and anniversary bashes over the years.


#426555 - 09/09/17 01:06 PM Re: Amplifier or new receiver? [Re: Avi Deshpande]
brendo Offline

Registered: 10/14/14
Posts: 540
Loc: West coast Canada
With the M60 the external isn't really necessary since it is relatively high 6 Ohms. You'd save a fair bit going higher power receiver with better processing. just keep an eye on your AVRs heat level.

When I switched from bookshelves to M80s my AVR{Teac Pro} was getting really warm from there I scored a used pro amp 450wpc. that I enjoyed very much since have added a 3 channel ADA1250, I wanted to keep the same power level 450wpc.

Although you'll probably find the E.P.350 to be limiting factor as the towers put out wonderful L.F.E. levels.

On a plus note young kids shows are very musical they will notice their shows sound wonderful and we can sing them the originals along with the songs. {Backyardigans does a lot of old remakes} My kids are 7 and 9 when their friends come for a movie they have never wanted to leave. "It's like our own theater" I've heard many times.


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