Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo M80 v4 midrange sounds dull and lifeless

I have a new set of M80v4 which replaced my old M80ti and the difference in dynamics in the midrange is extremely noticeable. M80v4 have minimal playtime yet and have not been broken in fully. Id say around 20 hours play time. Im using the same amp on both and its not the same and I actually enjoy my m80ti over the V4's.

Can I expect them to sound better overtime or is the crossover just changed this drastically that this is just the way they sound?

Just to be clear Im very familiar with Axiom products as I have a set of M60, M3, M22, QS8, VP150 and 100.

Do they move freely?

What do you mean by dull and lifeless? Do you mean the midrange is further "back" in the soundstage? I find my M80v2 midrange is "forward" to the point where a centre vocalist or instrument is off the soundstage. While this presentation isn't accurate, I like it.

Are you using some room correction like Audyssey? If yes, did you re-calibrate with new speaker? Such a change in placement seems like excessive room correction adding too much delays.

Eric, my M80v2 are 11 years old and they sound that way with or without Audyssey and with different receivers and amps. It's the way they are.

I'm trying to understand what's different about the v4 when it comes to soundstage but all the feedback I hear is related to improved tweetage and bass. I find this very difficult to believe given all the effort Axiom has put into family of curves research. Either owners aren't setting them up correctly or their rooms blow dead rats or all they listen for is loudness.

There's been no explanation from Axiom on how their research has improved the soundstage for non-omnidirectional models. Such an explanation could help drive sales.

BTW, I'll just say again that I have a 22 foot wide soundstage with the M80s and great imaging across this width but no depth. Ian keeps telling me I need LFRs for depth but I keep wanting to believe I can get away with M100s or M80v4.

I am using no correction as I use them with a 2 channel integrated tube amp. What I mean with dull and lifeless is that the soundstage sounds as if there is a veil. The midrange feels like its missing and when I switch back to my original M80ti the music comes to life with so much more dynamics in the soundstage.

If you have the dual binding posts, check that the shorting bars are connected between the two pairs. If not, something's busted inside.

Mojo, that is good advice. When I set up my M80s (used), I liked them, but found something lacking. Turns out they had no jumpers. I was listening to some big M22s. Ian sent me some jumpers and I finally got to listen to the M80s with all drivers functioning. A Significant improvement.

Barring any defects or loose connections, do yourself a favor and put your other speakers away and listen to the new ones. Give them a couple weeks see how you like them and go from there. Your just confusing things by switching back and forth. Why would you buy new speakers to have them sound the same as what you already have, think about it.

Switching back and forth is known as comparing. Comparing to a reference is a valid form of cognition for both biological and synthetic systems.

It certainly doesn't sound like he's confused because he's quite certain his new speakers sound veiled which means there's a defect in the system and most likely with his new speakers.

Your logic suggests he should keep his new speakers just because they sound different than his old speakers. That doesn't make sense to me.

Is it safe to assume the new speakers are set up exactly as the old ones were?
If they are wouldn't it stand to reason they shouldn't be?

One last thing, be sure to turn them up. Not stupid loud but don't baby them either.
Never did confirm if you checked that they are moving freely/properly/at all.

The ti's sound is usually said to be more forward than the V4's. It's possible that, since you're using a tube amp, it's warming the forwardness of the ti's and kind of neutering the midrange on the V4's.

Sorry for the late reply. Work is hectic.

As for my V4's they do not have biamp post so it's not that. Hooked up the same way as my V1.

As for my tube amp I find that I liked my Axioms so much more because it took the sharpness from the tweeters away and gave me a much more warm sound that's not fatiguing as better. If I use my surround receiver (Marantz SR7009) to play music I find that they are not very pleasant to listen to for long periods of time.

All the drivers check seem to be moving freely so I doubt it's that. To you guys saying that the V1 have a more forward soundstage I believe that's correct but they also seem to give me much better imaging too.

I thought it might just be me but I invited a friend to listen and he also pointed out the same issue I heard, midrange was veiled and when switched over to v1's the issue was gone and the music came to life.

I might open up the mid drivers up and see if they check out. Might even go as far as swap out mid drivers from my v1 into my v4 to see if it makes a difference or maybe it's all in the crossover?

Sorry if I'm all over the place with this reply

It would be unlikely that both speakers would have a problem. How about listening to them one at a time to establish if there's a difference?

BTW, you can't access the crossover on the v4 because it's screwed to the inside of the cabinet.

Could it be a combination of the "less bright" v4's, AND the tube amp together? You said that the ti's were too "sharp" with a transistor amp, and that the tube amp "warmed" things.

Try the v4's with the Marantz and see how they sound with it.

I think this could be part of the issue. I don't use my Marantz for Stereo music and just Surround sound but I will give them a listen with a solid state amp as well and see if I like the sound better. It might be that my combo doesn't work too well with the v4 and I perceive them as veiled. However I absolutely love the sound of my V1 with my tube amp which I forgot to mentioned is also hooked up to my DAC (PS Audio Perfect wave mk2)

I will report back and in any case my v4 will be up for sale at a significant savings. Used since December for less than 20 hours so far.

Haven't checked the entire thread, and I'm sure someone mentioned this, but have you checked the polarity of each driver to make sure they are pumping in unison.

I like the mids from my M80s even though I have only used solid state amplification with them (Yamaha M80 monsters, first 30 watts in pure class A). I picked up an Integra Research RDA7 but haven't set up the system since my flood.

I prefer tube amplification (and tube preamplication), but have to say the M80s sound excellent even driven by sand amps.

Good luck to you!