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#429331 - 04/23/18 11:51 AM Are larger amps worth it?
MatManhasgone Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/06/14
Posts: 1030
Loc: Lost in the great wide yonder
The larger floor standing speakers are all 4ohm rated. You really, however, need to look at the graphs to understand the power requirements. If you run a set of subs and do major bass management then you likely are sending most of the power sucking bass to the subs offloading it from the mains.

I have a set of Axiom ADA1000 amps, so they do have a pretty good dynamic headroom on the amp. But I am also powering the largest LFR1100 speakers that Axiom makes. I know that Ian has said that to get the best performance out of these speakers, use the largest amp. I just have the hardest time wrapping my head around how much power you need in a day to day application.

I understand how a speaker works. The wattage from the amp creates the magnetic field in the coil that either attracts or repulses the coil from the big magnet at the back of the speaker driving the cone in and out. The cone has a mass and the faster/further it needs to move requires wattage. The power requirements are not continuous and dynamic peeks can be very high. But how much overhead do you really need?

It's a few thousand to buy a new ADA1500 and trying to wrap my head around if its throwing money against the wall and hoping that it sticks, or if you can and will get some form of audiable improvement or difference to the sound you are getting?
_________________________
Anthem: AVM60
Axiom: ADA1000, LFR1100, VP180, QS8, EP500, M3, M3comp
AudioSource: Amp One/A

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#429332 - 04/23/18 04:18 PM Re: Are larger amps worth it? [Re: MatManhasgone]
brwsaw Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/12/12
Posts: 1833
Loc: Canada
Momentary peaks, momentary distortion.

I trust Ian.
I love my speakers.

It will likely come down to the spl you want.
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#429333 - 04/23/18 09:04 PM Re: Are larger amps worth it? [Re: MatManhasgone]
MatManhasgone Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/06/14
Posts: 1030
Loc: Lost in the great wide yonder
But that is the problem. I don't know or don't think that I am getting any major distortion from my current setup. That doesn't mean it is simply not there, but without being able to do a real A/B comparison, then it sure is hard to know if you are getting something out of the investment.

The other part to question is how much does it cost vs how much better it gets. For example, the M80 are pretty good speakers. They cost less than a pair of M100 and far less than the LFR1100. So you can say that the LFR are better sounding. sure, but at 3-5x the cost are you getting that same amount better in sound. NO! But it does sound better? Well, in some cases yes, in other cases, its about the same. So why get them?
_________________________
Anthem: AVM60
Axiom: ADA1000, LFR1100, VP180, QS8, EP500, M3, M3comp
AudioSource: Amp One/A

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#429334 - 04/23/18 10:14 PM Re: Are larger amps worth it? [Re: MatManhasgone]
Cohesion Offline
local

Registered: 03/27/12
Posts: 284
Loc: Maple, Ontario, Canada
I have the LFRs and run them with one ADA 1500. It sounds glorious, and I wouldn't think about using a lower power amp. However, I do like my music and movies loud. If you don't, then there is probably no reason to change anything!

However, given all the fairly high end equipment in your signature, including a separate pre/pro, running it with a higher end amp would seem logical to me.

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#429345 - 04/25/18 07:10 PM Re: Are larger amps worth it? [Re: MatManhasgone]
brendo Offline
devotee

Registered: 10/14/14
Posts: 382
Loc: West coast Canada
Being your Anthem has true balanced outputs, you have nice XLRs hanging around. .

I would go for it.

Not only could you fill your awesome room with reference levels no worry. You'd finally have the piece of mind knowing you'd have to spend a whole lot more to get close to the levels of performance you've already achieved.

As to whether or not you'll really notice a difference? I think the piece of mind in just being able to crank, that beautiful AVM60 sitting on your custom rack any time or when your really focused on whatever hobby. Will work itself out over time.

Having an MRX720 my self with M80\VP160 through a ADA1250 3channel. The volumes from -40 to -10 are very miniscule to very loud suddenly. It is some what comforting to know there's head room left when it accidentally gets uber loud.

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#429380 - 04/29/18 01:13 AM Re: Are larger amps worth it? [Re: MatManhasgone]
bridgman Online   content
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 6141
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
Woof... tough question. With M60s I noticed a big difference going from a 65 WPC (into 8 ohm) HK 3270 receiver to a >200WPC Adcom 555 power amp, but only when the volume was cranked up fairly high. It depends so much on listening levels - each tiny tweak of volume up needs ~double the power.

Is your ADA1000 a 4-channel powering front and rear drivers of the LFR's ? Reason for asking is that if so then going to an ADA1500 4-channel is only going to make a fairly small change in available power for the fronts, going from 250W to 325W. I don't think that would be noticeable... but going from 250W to 750W with a 2-channel ADA1500 would be at high volumes.

My recollection is that Ian is running multiple 2-channel amps but I'm not sure.


Edited by bridgman (04/29/18 01:16 AM)
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#429393 - 05/03/18 11:45 AM Re: Are larger amps worth it? [Re: MatManhasgone]
MatManhasgone Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/06/14
Posts: 1030
Loc: Lost in the great wide yonder
I am very torn, and regret placing the order right now.

The idea for me was to get a 1500-3 to power the fronts of the LFR and my center channel VP180. The rears of the LFR will be going to a 1000-5 with two of the remaining 3 powering the side QS8's

So from a power point of view, when in stereo mode, it will be like having a two channel 1500 as the center will not be used. When in HT mode, the power will dynamically be send around to either the fronts or the center as it seems the mixes now seem to favour one of the other but not both at the same time as the driving force. As well, I do have a pair of EP500 subs so I don't know if it's all being for nothing.

Further, I honestly never really found the need to crank blast my stereo up to reference levels ever. I guess if my current neighbours start to piss me off that might change, but right now I am keeping the peace.
_________________________
Anthem: AVM60
Axiom: ADA1000, LFR1100, VP180, QS8, EP500, M3, M3comp
AudioSource: Amp One/A

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#429394 - 05/03/18 01:39 PM Re: Are larger amps worth it? [Re: MatManhasgone]
casey01 Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/03/08
Posts: 852
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By MatManhasgone
The larger floor standing speakers are all 4ohm rated. You really, however, need to look at the graphs to understand the power requirements. If you run a set of subs and do major bass management then you likely are sending most of the power sucking bass to the subs offloading it from the mains.

I have a set of Axiom ADA1000 amps, so they do have a pretty good dynamic headroom on the amp. But I am also powering the largest LFR1100 speakers that Axiom makes. I know that Ian has said that to get the best performance out of these speakers, use the largest amp. I just have the hardest time wrapping my head around how much power you need in a day to day application.

I understand how a speaker works. The wattage from the amp creates the magnetic field in the coil that either attracts or repulses the coil from the big magnet at the back of the speaker driving the cone in and out. The cone has a mass and the faster/further it needs to move requires wattage. The power requirements are not continuous and dynamic peeks can be very high. But how much overhead do you really need?

It's a few thousand to buy a new ADA1500 and trying to wrap my head around if its throwing money against the wall and hoping that it sticks, or if you can and will get some form of audiable improvement or difference to the sound you are getting?


I believe the question has already been answered, however, it all depends on how loud your listening preferences are, the speakers you are using in your set-up and, of course, the size of the room. Keep in mind that doubling the power rating will only give you approximately 3-4db in additional headroom.

For reference purposes, my room is 27' by 12', my system is 9.2 with 3 powered subs. My three channels across the front consist of a VP180 and 2 M80s in a L/R configuration. I am using a Yamaha Pre-Pro with TWO Outlaw 150 w/ch. multi-channel power amps. I have considered in the past replacing them with a more powerful version of the ADA models but considering the price that would be paid and the fact that I currently can turn up the volume well beyond what would ever be normal listening levels and still have a perfectly clear sound, for me, there was really no point. Of course, both amps are a few years old and out of warranty so if one or both of them die, my thoughts about it could change.

Of course, with electronics we are always looking for that "holy grail" in sound so the old adage of marketing and sales takes over in our mind. "Sometimes we buy what we want, not what we need".


Edited by casey01 (05/03/18 01:45 PM)

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#429403 - 05/03/18 03:54 PM Re: Are larger amps worth it? [Re: MatManhasgone]
Gr8_White_North Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 07/12/09
Posts: 2281
Loc: Whitehorse YT
Look at it this way, if this was a pissing contest you would be near the front LOL. Its a hobby , buy it enjoy screww everyone else. i have 11 channels at 300 a channel , is that enough i dont know but it gets the job done for now.
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#429409 - 05/03/18 06:22 PM Re: Are larger amps worth it? [Re: MatManhasgone]
brendo Offline
devotee

Registered: 10/14/14
Posts: 382
Loc: West coast Canada
Congrats Matt.

Richard has the right idea, be happy you got the cream of the crop. And the rest of us are in envy. I'm itching for a 1000 for my atmos. channels here on the wet coast.

Hope for your neighbours sake they don't P you off. Or suffer the wrath of your dual 500s.

Myself I went from a Pro Amp. with 450watts A\B to a 3 channel ADA1250.
I wanted the same wattage, The ADA in my opinion is much better plus no fans pesky noises. Have had it at around -10 or 20 DB for a whole day and it doesn't even get warm.

As Craig has stated with lower levels you may not notice any diff. Although at least you'll know there's headroom just in case the neighbours go away and you want to see what it can do.

Plus you can take your XLRs out of storage and avoid any loops or feed back. Give it some time I think you've made a great decision you wont regret.

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