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Forums » General Discussion » Advice from Axiom Owners » Denon 3802, H/K 520, or Marantz 5200?

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#4287 - 04/11/03 05:37 PM Re: Denon 3802, H/K 520, or Marantz 5200?
sushi Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 1490
Loc: Dallas, TX
colesy,

I would suggest you also consider the Pioneer Elite 45TX, which sells for prices similar to the receivers you listed. I recently bought the 45TX despite some criticisms against the Pioneer receivers in this and other online forums. And I am a very happy owner so far; the more I play around with the receiver, the more I like it.

First and foremost, the MCACC technology is just great. It truly "improves" the response of your entire system, including the listening room – the forgotten component. The problem is that it is rather hard to imagine the benefits of the automatic EQ, unless you actually hear it at your own home. You really need to experience it to appreciate the technology.

Second, the Pioneer receivers have been criticized to run quite hot, but I do not really see that. After playing music and movies for several hours at quite high volume levels (-10dB to -6dB from the reference level), the top of the receiver's cabinet only gets to a bit warmer than the body temperature, probably around 100F. Sure I know there are other receivers/amps that run cooler (for one thing, my own Adcom power amp barely gets warm at all), but the Pioneer certainly does not get so hot that it starts to make me alarmed. It should be noted, though, that I do place the receiver so that it has a plenty of room above for heat dissipation.

Third, there have been user complaints that the Pioneer receivers occasionally shut itself down under 4-ohm loads, with less-than-crazy volume levels. Apparently, Pioneer has quietly addressed this problem (without ever acknowledging the issue publicly) and updated the receiver’s safety circuit and firmware, so the units manufactured in or after October, 2002 do not seem to have the problem. Currently, I am driving my 4-ohm Hales by the 45TX, and have never been able to get the Pioneer to shut-down so far, even by once listening at pretty insane volumes.

Forth, in relation to the above-mentioned points, the Pioneers have been generally criticized for the “lack of power reserve.” I do not know how these criticisms originated, but the actual measurements published by HiFi News (UK) seem to rebuke the criticisms completely (see here and here; VSX-D2011 is the European model number for the 45TX). According to the article, the 45TX had the best “regulation” among the models they compared when increasing number of channels are simultaneously driven – nearly 140W/ch of continuous power with 5 channels driven, a quite respectable number.

Finally, the sound quality... I am not one of those people who claim that you can readily hear the sound differences between today’s quality receivers/amps. However, I can say that the Pioneer’s noise floor is very low – for a line-level analog input selected, the receiver is just dead silent. The sound is, as you expect, just neutral – it does not seem to add or subtract anything from the sources (except for, of course, the equalization by the MCACC, and other surround “effects” when you select one of them) - which is all you need from a receiver.

Happy shopping!



Edited by sushi (04/11/03 06:02 PM)

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#4288 - 04/11/03 07:33 PM Re: Denon 3802, H/K 520, or Marantz 5200?
chesseroo Offline
axiomite

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 5171
Loc: western canada
So sushi,
it sounds like your Pioneer choice is working out ok then.
Perhaps Pioneer has started to revamp their receiver guts somewhat. I would still like to see their high end receivers get an official spec listed for playing 4 ohm speakers though.

_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#4289 - 04/11/03 07:38 PM Re: Monitor Audio Axiom thoughts
chesseroo Offline
axiomite

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 5171
Loc: western canada
I know PMC is not cheap but heck, are any tower speakers of decent quality ever really cheap?
My Axioms are a great bargain but i certainly cannot say my M60s were cheap per se.

I'm still leaning towards the Tannoy Definition D700s possibly for the future music system but auditioning is the key. If the Tannoys i have at present are any indication of a signature Tannoy sound, then i'm already halfway down a very satisfied road.
The fun part is trying to find some nice pre-pros and amps to drive such heavy sucking 4 ohm speakers.
Couple of names i'm perusing:
Mcintosh
Bryston
Threshold
Arcam
Musical Fidelity
_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#4290 - 04/11/03 10:07 PM Re: Monitor Audio Axiom thoughts
mwc Offline
aficionado

Registered: 07/21/02
Posts: 958
Loc: Texas(DFW)..that country to th...
Chess,
In my 2 channel system, I have the Odyssey Audio Stratos (150/ch) amp. You won't be able to find them in stores (only from Odyssey web site). This is a wonderful amp, IMHO. Like Axiom, there is a money back guarantee if you are not satisfied. Also like Axiom, the customer service is second to none. These amps are very clean and neutral sounding and built like a brick S*#thouse with a 20 year warranty. A fantastic value. It may be worth adding to your amp list. I haven't heard any of the amps that you mentioned but I'll bet that the Stratos will hold it's own (or perhaps even surpass) against any of them for a lot less money. I'm driving power hungry 4 ohm Magnepans with it and it never gets more than mildly warm to the touch. It also makes my Axiom M22s sing so sweetly. This amp does not sound tube like nor does it have any SS glare. Just a very smooth and free flowing and uncolored presentation. I beleive that they are selling for US $1071.00. I got mine with the 120 cap. upgrade - don't know if it make a difference over the stock amp because I've never had a stock amp to compare to. Checkum' out at audioreview.com. BTW, I'm useing an Anthem pre that I am very happy with.
_________________________
*Does your train of thought have a caboose?*

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#4291 - 04/12/03 05:21 AM Re: Denon 3802, H/K 520, or Marantz 5200?
sushi Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 1490
Loc: Dallas, TX
In reply to:

I would still like to see their high end receivers get an official spec listed for playing 4 ohm speakers though.



Agreed! Not only the flagship 49TXi, but at least all the Elite lines...


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#4292 - 04/12/03 10:01 AM Re: Monitor Audio Axiom thoughts
polara Offline
old hand

Registered: 05/19/02
Posts: 64
i can second the odyssey brand-if you get a used one find the id numbers first and call klaus to make sure its a real one, a expartner of his sold amps with odyssey name and they arent built right, klaus wont work on them either.
theres a fake at audiogon right now for 725$(the ripoff jerk sold these for about 500$)
i love my odyssey mono blocks with extreme upgrade, i have 4ohm 89db speakers and they never break a sweat, oh man they sound good.

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#4293 - 04/12/03 03:30 PM Re: Denon 3802, H/K 520, or Marantz 5200?
jbzngowest Offline
devotee

Registered: 07/13/02
Posts: 388
Loc: Mid-south U.S.
Did you see how old this thread is? I bet he bought the Denon.

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#4294 - 04/12/03 07:41 PM Re: Denon 3802, H/K 520, or Marantz 5200?
sushi Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 02/09/03
Posts: 1490
Loc: Dallas, TX
In reply to:

Did you see how old this thread is?



LOL LOL What was I thinking about???
Anyway, the thread has been revived...

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#4295 - 04/12/03 08:44 PM Re: Denon 3802, H/K 520, or Marantz 5200?
jbzngowest Offline
devotee

Registered: 07/13/02
Posts: 388
Loc: Mid-south U.S.
I guess it's ok considering the next holiday...

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