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#430015 - 09/11/18 06:59 PM Surround setup for music
SrMead Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 08/27/18
Posts: 14
Hello everybody,

I'm looking to put together a multichannel system anchored by LFR1100s as the fronts. Multichannel music (classical/jazz mostly) is the main objective, with HT being important but secondary. I'm second guessing the QS10's as the best choice for surrounds given the focus on music. Are they well matched timbrically to the LFRs? Should I look into other speakers for surrounds?

Thanks for any insights!

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#430016 - 09/11/18 08:16 PM Re: Surround setup for music [Re: SrMead]
brendo Offline
devotee

Registered: 10/14/14
Posts: 389
Loc: West coast Canada
The voicing of all Axioms have a similar timbre.
It mainly is dependant on Atmos which states all mono pole speakers in such systems, room size and your wants.
I've tried M3 and M22 as surround both of which were great. Though in 5.1 or7.1 the Q series is something else. Also in DTSX the Qs are awesome.
With the HP woofers of the LFR1100 you may like the HP woofer of the Qs10 though with a decent big subwoofer 500 and larger the HP duties would go to the sub.

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#430018 - 09/12/18 11:08 AM Re: Surround setup for music [Re: SrMead]
alan Offline

connoisseur

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3267
Loc: Toronto/New York/parry Sound
Hello SrMead,
Before I retired and worked as an editor at Audio magazine in Manhattan, Dolby Labs used to recommend using some type of multi-polar surround speakers (this was long before the Atmos era), positioned on the side walls (in a 5.1 configuration, with the option of adding two more surrounds speakers at the rear for a 7.1 channel setup). In fact, Dolby's smaller New York demo theater was equipped that way. In the Hollywood movie mixing sessions I attended in a large cinema-size mixing theater (the Alfred Hitchcock mixing theater), the surround speakers were all direct-radiating types on the side walls and rear wall.

That said, since my musical tastes parallel your own, I've used QS8 surrounds on the side walls to great effect for music (and movies, for that matter) for many years, paired with M22s at the front (or M80s, on a switching system) with an EP500 subwoofer.

The timbral match of the QS8s to the M22s and M80s is superb. I assume the QS10s are equally well-matched, but I had retired from Axiom before they were introduced, so I've never heard them. You may well find that with the LFR1100s, with which I'm familiar, that the soundstage is so broad and enveloping, you don't even need to bother with surround speakers, however, I still recommend you use a pair of QS8s or QS10s on each side wall. The ambience envelopment and "hall sound" is at times thrilling, and there is no loss of imaging specificity with the QS surrounds.

Regards,
Alan
_________________________
Alan Lofft,
Axiom Resident Expert (Retired)

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#430083 - 09/22/18 02:55 AM Re: Surround setup for music [Re: SrMead]
SrMead Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 08/27/18
Posts: 14
Thank you Brendo and Alan for your input. I'm still weighing alternatives for my new system and your insights are very helpful.

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#430086 - 09/22/18 11:46 AM Re: Surround setup for music [Re: SrMead]
Mojo Online   content
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 4969
I've used 4 x QS8 v2 surrounds for music and movies with M80s for the last 11 years. I'm very happy with them. I'm getting ready to upgrade to QS10HP which I anticipate will give me a more immersive feel during movies and a wider and more linear soundstage for music. I've heard the QS8 with M3, M60, M22 and LFR and there is no tonal difference.

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#430093 - 09/22/18 08:34 PM Re: Surround setup for music [Re: SrMead]
Mojo Online   content
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 4969
BTW, you can't go wrong with Axiom. All Axiom's president wants is for his customers to be in lust with what they hear. If they're not, he'll go out of his way to make it right. Not because it's good business but because he's a great human being.

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#430138 - 09/26/18 05:06 PM Re: Surround setup for music [Re: SrMead]
SrMead Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 08/27/18
Posts: 14
Thank you everybody for your insights. Here's my current thinking - let me know your thoughts before I pull the trigger! smile

I have let go of my original idea of LFR1100s for the fronts, instead looking at M100s. I don't think that my room dimensions and quirkiness can do justice to the LFRs in terms of the distance from the wall they require. (Something to look forward to if/when I move to a bigger space!)

So in summary -
- M100s for the fronts
- VP180 for the center channel
- A pair of M5's for the sides (remember this is for discrete multichannel music as primary objective)
- EP500 subwoofer
- Potentially QS10's for the rear surrounds to complete a 7.1 setup for movies.

I'm expecting that the M100s, VP180 and M5s will be well matched for multichannel music - thoughts on this?

Thanks guys

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#430139 - 09/26/18 05:45 PM Re: Surround setup for music [Re: SrMead]
Mojo Online   content
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 4969
Good call on all components but I question the M100 and 180. Do you need the sensitivity, high SPL or low frequency performance of the M100 and 180? Do you have adequate space from your front wall to offer you depth of soundstage and not suffer from bloated bass (which might be tamed with port plugs at the sacrifice of some low frequency performance)? If not, consider the M5 for the front and 160. Craig Chase has said the M5, paired with an EP800, bests most $10,000 speakers. I would say that would also apply to an EP500v4 or 600v4 provided you're willing to sacrifice some SPL and low output. I have the 800 and 160 and have nothing but good things to say about them. I can't say the same for the 600v2 and 150v2. BTW, I get a clean 35Hz on my 160v4 and have it crossed over at 40Hz.

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#430140 - 09/26/18 06:25 PM Re: Surround setup for music [Re: SrMead]
SrMead Offline
frequent flier

Registered: 08/27/18
Posts: 14
So Mojo, are you suggesting going with 4 M5's (fronts and side channels)? plus the 160 as a center? I do want/need the low freq response for those double bass lines and the occasional pipe organ. SPL doesn't have to be crazy high.

And what would be an adequate clearance from the wall for the M100s?

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#430141 - 09/26/18 07:06 PM Re: Surround setup for music [Re: SrMead]
Mojo Online   content
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 4969
You'll get plenty of low frequency response with the 500. I think the 500 will work in a room up to 5,000 ft^3 provided you are looking for clean bass to 20Hz. Slimpikins enjoys clean bass out of his 500v4 and he's in a 10,000 ft^3 room with Bryston Model T powered by two, 2,000W amps that are fully cranked! I have an 800v4 in my 4,200 ft^3 room and it's turned up less than half-way on the dial. If you get a sealed Axiom sub, ask Ian if he can NME it for you.

If you need right down to 16Hz for the lowest note of a pipe organ, then buy the 600. Ask yourself though how low can your room go and still be able to support clean sub-bass?

If you are only interested in good bass response at a single listening position, then one sub is fine. If you need flat response at multiple positions, you might want to consider up to four subs.

As for how far the 100 has to be away from the front wall, I don't own one but I can tell you hometheatreshack recommended a 3 foot minimum to tame the bass. Other reviewers had a tough time with how much bass it threw out. As for depth of soundstage, I have the back of my M80v2 3 feet out and i can definitely perceive depth but I want more. I am considering upgrading my 80v2 to M5 which I know will give me a more refined soundstage.

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