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#430539 - 11/28/18 11:18 PM Ordered M60, VP150, now thinking M5's and VP180...
Dragbug Online   content
frequent flier

Registered: 11/28/18
Posts: 18
As the subject states, I ordered some M60's over the weekend, also the VP 150. I realized, maybe to late, that there are Axiom forums and started reading up about the M5HP's and also read some bad reviews on the VP150. I am upgrading from M22Ti's for the fronts, VP100 for center and two M2i's for surrounds. Oh and the sub has been handled by a cheap Sony powered sub that will eventually get replaced. Obviously I am looking for better updated sound quality.

I have always felt like I have been missing something from the center channel. Voices have always seemed weak and always felt like i needed to raise the center channel volume to hear conversations. Generally, explosions and other sound effects usually seem fine volume wise. I thought the VP 150 was the next step but from what I have read in these forums, that's probably not a good idea. I thought about the VP160 but concerned about the height of the box.

I was going to go with the M60's because I have felt like the M22's were straining or like I had to turn the volume up to much to get the volume i thought i should be getting at that setting. The Denon AVR X2300 made that feeling worse so went back to a Sony and bought the STR DN-1080 which sounds much louder at lower volumes. Still, the M22Ti's have never really made me feel great about that purchase all those years ago and I have always wanted something bigger but at that time, I bought what I could afford and I was stationed in Japan and really didn't have the room for anything bigger. Now I have the room but frankly, the wife wasn't to happy about me getting the M60's and then I read about the M5HP's.

So.. advice time. Upgrading from M22Ti's, what am I gaining with the M5HP's? What would I gain with the M60's? What would I lose between the M5 VS the M60's?

Will running the VP180 hurt the receiver? If not, since it is 4 ohms, will I need to raise/lower the gain on the center to match the L/R volume?

Thanks for any help given.


Edited by Dragbug (11/28/18 11:20 PM)
Edit Reason: Spelling
_________________________
M60
VP180
M2i
Sony STR-DN 1080

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#430540 - 11/29/18 12:11 AM Re: Ordered M60, VP150, now thinking M5's and VP180... [Re: Dragbug]
Mojo Online   content
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 4969
A. Upgrading from M22Ti (yechhh! very offensive.) to any v4 (not on or in-wall or in-ceiling) will give you:

1. A holographic soundstage that allows you to hear height, width and depth

2. Clear imaging across the soundstage with lots of space between the instruments

The degree to which you achieve the above will depend on how well you can position your speakers and how good your room is. "Properly positioned" means placing the speakers at least a foot or two away from side walls, two feet or more from the back wall, a separation of a good six feet or more and forming an equilateral triangle with your listening position. "Good room" means at least reflecting side walls to allow the lateral reflections to reach your ears. The reflecting side walls will expand the width of the soundstage (the sense of spaciousness). Even better if you can put some absorption on your ceiling and front wall and absorption or diffusion on the back wall. The treatment will vastly improve image focus.

3. Crystal-clear, non-fatiguing, silky highs with lots of transparency and air that you absolutely must hear

4. A real nice "pop" to your lows and "snap" in the drums.

All of the above is a really big deal and really changes the game. The potential for all of this wasn't in version 2 (and likely not in the Ti). I don't know about version 3. Let's just say you will, like me, kick yourself for not upgrading earlier.

B. The 160v4 is fantastic. Unfortunately I suffered with the 150v2 for 11 freakin' years before I got the 160. The 180v4 is also excellent. I've heard it from all angles and distances and it works regardless what conventional wisdom says. Also consider a center that is the same as your mains if that will work for you. Now whether or not that Sony can power it is a different matter. Real specs on that Sony aren't available.

C. M5HPs vs. M60s:

1. The M5HPs are not bookshelves. First, they're way too big. Second, putting them on a table or in/on a shelf would be a bloody great way to diminish their sound quality! You will need stands.

2. The M60s will give you a bit more bass, they are marginally less power hungry and they're a bit more linear.

3. The M5HPs may image better in your room due to a smaller driver complement.

4. The M60s will be marginally easier to drive.

I have M5HPs and you can read my posts on how amazing they sound in my 4,200 ft^3 space. I am driving them with an Onk that bests your Sony. I will say they take about 5dB more power to reach the same SPL as my previous M80v2. I have to sometimes turn them up to -5 to -10 whereas with my M80v2, I never had to go above -10. Most of the time though, I listen to between -12 to -15. I watched Hyena Road earlier today at -17 (a couple of Watts) on Netflix and it was great!


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#430541 - 11/29/18 01:17 AM Re: Ordered M60, VP150, now thinking M5's and VP180... [Re: Dragbug]
Dragbug Online   content
frequent flier

Registered: 11/28/18
Posts: 18
Thanks Mojo! You were one of the main contributors to me maybe deciding on the M5's.

The M22Ti's are currently my mains and would be replaced by the M5's or the M60's. I will be getting stands for the M5's if I go that route.

The room they would be going into is not ideal by any stretch of the imagination. One side opens into the kitchen and the other side the speakers would be pretty much right up against the wall.There is about 7' separation between the M22's but they are backed up against the back wall. They could be pulled up away from the wall a little but due to a couch on the kitchen side, I wouldn't be able to pull them forward by much or there wouldn't be much room to walk by.

Eventually, we will be renovating the house and setting things up a bit better for a much nicer HT experience. We actually have a "Great room" that would be perfect for the ultimate HT experience but, the sound would travel through every room in the house especially upstairs and the wife would not be very happy.

Not overly concerned about bass to be honest. The M22's don't put out shit for base and the little Sony powered bass speaker does a decent job. I will eventually get an EP350 and I would assume the M5 or M60 would put out noticeably more base than the M22Ti anyway.

Hopefully I caught the team early enough to change my order, if they let me. I ordered from the factory outlet with the black Friday deal over the weekend. Received a progress email around 2PM and sent an email to them this afternoon to not ship as I wanted to maybe change my order. Crossing my fingers.
_________________________
M60
VP180
M2i
Sony STR-DN 1080

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#430542 - 11/29/18 04:36 AM Re: Ordered M60, VP150, now thinking M5's and VP180... [Re: Dragbug]
Ian Online   content
President
connoisseur

Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 1198
Hi Dragbug,

It will not be a problem to change your order. I would suggest staying with the M60s though and just changing the centre channel to a VP180. The M60s are very similar to the M5HP in overall performance but they will give you more output per watt and deeper bass as they have more cabinet volume.
_________________________
Ian Colquhoun
President & Chief Engineer

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#430543 - 11/29/18 09:39 AM Re: Ordered M60, VP150, now thinking M5's and VP180... [Re: Dragbug]
Mojo Online   content
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 4969
Your room sounds small. Even though it's open to the rest of the house, it will still get very loud with the M5s. I know because I put the M5s in my living room which is open to the rest of the house and drove them with my 17 year old Denon.

The low end from the M5s is very nice. It's not as deep as my old M80v2 but it's much better to listen to. So is the midrange. And the highs. And the soundstage. And the imaging. M5s over M80v2 any day! When you hear them, you'll hang yourself from the rafters for torturing your ear-brain system all these years. LOL!

You won't need that sub or maybe you can set the speakers as large and move the sub to a location that smoothens out the bass for the entire room. My Onk found the M5s go down to 40 Hz in my large space. I'd turn off my 800v4 and let my friends listen to music and movies and there were no complaints at all. Of course when I turned on the 800 they realized what they were missing...heh heh.

Regardless of which you decide on, foam plugs for the ports may be in your future since they'll be sitting close to the front wall. Axiom has custom ones that fit the speaker sphincters. Toeing in the speakers may also help with the bass. I've found because they are so dispersive, toe-in doesn't negatively impact imaging and may improve it depending on your room geometry.

Good luck with that room. I have the same problem in my living room with M3s (not the M3s' fault). Your Sony likely has some kind of room correction, which I don't have, so that will help.

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#430544 - 11/29/18 10:52 AM Re: Ordered M60, VP150, now thinking M5's and VP180... [Re: Dragbug]
Dragbug Online   content
frequent flier

Registered: 11/28/18
Posts: 18
Thanks Ian and Mojo. Looks like I did catch them in time. I received an email this morning. Ian, looks like the email I received also suggested upgrading to the VP180 and keeping the M60. My only concern now is the price point difference between the VP150 and the VP180. When I was deciding between the M60 and the M5, the price difference helped offset the price difference between the center channels and sounded like I was getting pretty much the same quality sounding mains. I won't be able to afford the extra cost of just upgrading to the VP180, the price difference is just to great and the wife wasn't all that happy about the purchase in the first place lol. Normally, she wouldn't care but I was on a spending spree this season.
_________________________
M60
VP180
M2i
Sony STR-DN 1080

Top
#430545 - 11/29/18 11:12 AM Re: Ordered M60, VP150, now thinking M5's and VP180... [Re: Dragbug]
Mojo Online   content
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 4969
Have a look at the B-stock 180s. Not sure the finish will work for you.

https://www.axiomaudio.com/deals/b-stock

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#430546 - 11/29/18 11:18 AM Re: Ordered M60, VP150, now thinking M5's and VP180... [Re: Dragbug]
Dragbug Online   content
frequent flier

Registered: 11/28/18
Posts: 18
Thanks Mojo, I did see them and yes, those finishes are the ones I would absolutely pick. When I made my current order, I did it under the Black Friday deal. I don't know if they can apply the Black Friday deal to the B-stock items but I replied back to the email from Axiom to inquire.
_________________________
M60
VP180
M2i
Sony STR-DN 1080

Top
#430550 - 11/29/18 05:22 PM Re: Ordered M60, VP150, now thinking M5's and VP180... [Re: Dragbug]
Dragbug Online   content
frequent flier

Registered: 11/28/18
Posts: 18
Well good news. Sounds like Axiom is going out of their way to do the best they can to try and help me upgrade to the VP180 and stick with the M60's. The more I think about it, the more I think I will be happier with the M60 and VP180 combo. Ian helped when he said "more output per watt" for the M60 although Mojo certainly made a good argument for the M5. We will see what they come up with. Thanks for the help guys!
_________________________
M60
VP180
M2i
Sony STR-DN 1080

Top
#430551 - 11/29/18 06:13 PM Re: Ordered M60, VP150, now thinking M5's and VP180... [Re: Dragbug]
Mojo Online   content
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 4969
That's terrific! All Ian ultimately wants out of listeners is to experience a heightened emotion when they hear his gear. You're gonna be grinning from ear to ear when you get everything set up.

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