Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo Out with the old and in with the new

I have never believed this and was vocal in my early days on this forum (2002ish). It was not popular then to believe that only speakers made the difference. I had several forum members listen to my systems in various configurations (inexpensive source, inexpensive amp, super expensive speakers ranging to expensive source and amp and inexpensive speakers) and to a person the consensus was invest in source and electronics first. I know this is not a popular direction on a board hosted by a speaker mfg'er, but I have known Ian (albeit somewhat remotely) since 1990ish...and he has never censored me!! LOL!

Just to add names to devices, the most satisfying devices tended to be the YBA amps, Totem Mani 2 and Reference 3a Suprema speakers and the Linn turntable or Linn CD player. When I used the Axioms I had at the time - AX3 - they were incredible when driven/fed properly.

Axiom has always provided great value for the audio $$ and have been the only speakers that have stayed with me since purchase in 1989. The AX3's were dropped off for trade in during the 30th anniversary party (replaced with M80's) and I have expanded the fleet (VP160, QS8's and dual EP350's) and they still put a smile on my face daily!

I may be just a dumb electrical engineer who assumed audio gear is designed with the same thought and care as the industrial control products I've worked on. I suppose in audio no one is gonna sue if it sounds bad as opposed to controls which can kill people. There are no regulatory bodies either.

I'm pretty bitter today. The Onk/M100/800 combo in my main room that I've loved so much sounds like crap compared to the M5/pioneer sx-a9-j in my living room. It never ends. I need a more pristine signal path from my sources to my speakers ):

I also bid Spotify Premium goodbye today in favor of Tidal Hi-Fi. I'm looking forward to trying MQA out.

Cool findings Mo.
It's entertaining how when you let people know you can hear such differences they usually go totally there can't be a difference.

Sadly now Pioneer is part of Onkyo so the difference may no longer be.
Personally I think the electronics and shielding of cables are the most important for my situation.
Have you seen the new Cambridge and Adcom big boys. Really expensive but sound like severe muscle.

I'm not the only one who can hear it. One of my friends came over for breaky yesterday. As soon as she walked in, she asked me why the M5s sound so different. Then I pointed to the Pioneer on the floor vs the de-commisioned Denon on the counter. As she was listening she said it's clearer, more crisp, wider, more pop, images better defined and they're deeper on the stage. BTW, I taught her what to listen for and the vocabulary.

Thanks. I'll have to check those bad boys out.

Electronics and computer systems engineer here!


Consumer electronics is a cut throat business and compromises have to be made to hit price points. The majority of the consumers in the audio business want cheap and function rich, which explains HTIB. You are correct on the lack of governing bodies and standards

Someone said hearing the differences are like spotting the ding in a car door. You may need certain light to see it, but once you do you cant unsee it....

It is at this point I would suggest you go rent a pro amp. Long and mcquade rents yorkville ap4k amps. Try one...... be careful.

Its not a hifi amp, but varying the gain vs preamp level in will show you how an amps soundstage can change when even compared with itself. They arent the same at all.

Plus it is literally a bottomless pit of power. The only reason I didnt buy one is the low level hiss when no signal is input. In my quiet room it bugged me. A great amp for subs though..... like 2 custom 15s..... Mwa ha ha.

You've mentioned this before and I'm glad you reminded me. I don't like going to 58th because it'difficult getting in and out of there but I think I'll have to. I'm also finding the pioneer is giving me a greater sense of darkness between the images. I don't know how all this works frankly. I don't understand how images are formed behind my v4 and how they are layered and well defined. Our brains hallucinate reality.

Plus be careful with the connection from a Pro Amp. I've got a Crest Audio power Amp. 450watts stereo 900 bridged. which needs 1/4 TRS connection the damn thing picks up every ground issue. My previous AVR was also Pro{Teac pro}
Tried connecting it to my current setup Anthem MRX720 for rear heights {ATMOS}.
Instant buzz, Mind you that's with my ADA1250 {front3}connected as well.

I've found a tune recorded in the 70s where the drums are so far back, they're outside my living room window. I connected the Denon up and I can't get that kind of depth. It's also fuzzier and muddier.

Brendo, what's the imaging like with your different amps and the Anthem?

The ARC in the Anthem is wonderous.
With the Pro Amp. was great all the depth and clean power. The M80 V.4 can take gobs. Except the fan on some pro amps. can be nasty. Mine is like 40/45 Db. In the prime seat.

The ADA doesn't have a fan, I've got a 3 channel so I think it has 400 watts{ADA1250}. Which is 50 less than the pro. Truthfully I haven't compared them in a while, due to the fan. And the depth I can get through my VP160. on the 3rd channel. Really nice full bodied lows. usually crossed at 50hz. without any hesitations. Same with my M80s 50/60hz.

Power wise I've never had any slight with either Amp. Can crank it to plus 10 go outside an listen while gardening. Or even blazing to listen to that neat Indian Jazz group you mentioned on the what you listening to thread. Just clean at any volume desired. A must try. All the quiet passages on classical and even Roger Waters that need -20 to be heard come through crystal clear, sometimes unexpected. and the loud ones have lots to be revealed at volume. Beware those M100 must be a dream with real Amperage. Just a massive beautiful detailed wall of coolness. I've never heard that cymbal or snare whack so cleanly, even movie dialogue in the background. was normal the fist couple years.