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#431222 - 02/06/19 04:12 PM Upgraditis could use some help....ok alot of help
Michael13 Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 11/29/13
Posts: 28
Hey Fellow Axiomites,

Ive been following this forum and company since i was 12 (33 now) it all started with a trip to the family doctor, whom everyone else's appointment but myself ran late.

Luckily for me there was a Home theater show room, show casing several of Axioms theater set ups just behind the doctors office. An hour later and an enraged father im smiling ear to ear leaving with a major problem( and a red arse). I will forever need to have quality audio in my life.

Fast forward another 13 years and i made my first M22 purchase. Since than i have acquired the Epic 500 Vp150 collection in 5.1 over approx 8 years.

I love my M22's but always felt something was lacking even when i first fired them up. (not that i was unsatisfied, just left with a feeling of that's it?) Once i purchased the remainder of the set everything seemed to come together quite well.

However , with an aging Receiver and always wanting the M60's (too bad the prices aren't the same from a decade ago :D) i find myself wanting to upgrade.

The wife and i are always finding we need to increase the Center speakers' volume to max and still have a hard time differentiating between the center and the side speakers.

I have never calibrated the receiver, but at this point i will be replacing it anyway.

I have been looking at the Onkyo Nr 787,Anthem Mrx 520, as well as the Yamaha Aventage series. it would seem power has been dropped for more feature these days, and i truly dont understand the dynamic range most of them are refering to. each channel is 100 watt output can also do 250w.

In the end, im asking what receiver would be best to drive my system, whether i choose to upgrade to the M5, or the M60's.

i have no doubt about the VP150 to 160 as it seems to be a no brainer.

I know the m60's would be overkill for my current situation, but the whole reference to my childhood is that i don't often have money to splurge so when i do , i purchase quality products to ensure longevity and enjoyment for years to come. As i will eventually be moving into a home in the next 2 years, i dont want to be back here upgrading once again.

Current equipment,

Kenwood VR7070

M22 v3 (2011)
vp150 v3 (2013)
ep500 - V4 (2016)
Qs8 -v4- (2017)

My current space inst very large less than 600 sq ft.(open floor to possibly 800 sq ft) however when i do move, i will be putting this in a dedicated theater room.

sorry for the long email, i felt it necessary to post my situation as we all differ from one another but share the same interest in this amazing company.

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#431224 - 02/06/19 05:27 PM Re: Upgraditis could use some help....ok alot of help [Re: Michael13]
Mojo Offline
axiomite

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 5948
Michael, I had the M80, 150, QS8 and 600 - all v2. I upgraded to the 160 and 800 v4. Great upgrade. I should have done it earlier. In the third quarter of last year, I got the QS10, M3, M5 and M100 v4. The QS10 was a great step up from the QS8. An even greater step over the M80v2 was the M3 and a bigger step after that was the M5. The M5 is the highest value between the M3 and M100. You will love them. If you drive them with a good pre-amp and amp, you will not need a sub for music.

As for a receiver, you can read what I've recently found out about my Onk which I always thought was so awesome. Get very good electronics because they make a huge difference.

If Ian wanted to do us all a solid, he'd come up with a family of pre/pros that we could all embrace.

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#431225 - 02/06/19 08:43 PM Re: Upgraditis could use some help....ok alot of help [Re: Mojo]
Michael13 Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 11/29/13
Posts: 28
Hey Mojo,

I was hoping to get your feed back actually since reading some of the historic posts.

Which onkyo amp are you using currently ?

I have been leaning towards the M5's as well, as i dont have an unlimited budget and the extra funds would go to a better reciever. They look fantastic and all the reviews highly praise the crisp clean sound, the entire reason i got the M22's was because of how clean and accurate they are.

Realisticly how much do 100 watt channel amps differ from 120 watt channel amps? Are we talking just a few spl? Or something significant.

one more thing sorry, is there no more stand for the vp160? It doesnt seem to be on the site anymore.


Edited by Michael13 (02/06/19 08:44 PM)

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#431226 - 02/06/19 11:00 PM Re: Upgraditis could use some help....ok alot of help [Re: Michael13]
Mojo Offline
axiomite

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 5948
I have the nr818. It can dump over 170W into both fronts at once but that's in steady-state. Its transient response absolutely sucks. I only discovered this recently. My 55W pioneer mid-grade audiophile receiver is a killer compared to my Onk.

There is practically no difference between a 100W and 120W amp. To double the SPL, you need to double the power and doubling the SPL won't result in a doubling of perceived loudness. For a doubling of perceived loudness, you'd need about nine times the power!

What you need is a good pre/pro and a good amp. With well-recorded material, I listen at 2W average. When a 20dB peak is reached, with for example a drum, I need 256W to reproduce that peak. What we all need isn't high RMS (except for Slimpikins who plays his Bryston Model T at 32W steady-state), or constant, power. We need HUUUUGE peak power. Unfortunately no one has figured out how to build an amp with teeny constant power and huge peak power.

I think Axiom is in the middle of a stand re-design.
_________________________
M100,VP160,QS10HPx2,EP800,M5HP,M3,M50 v4
M80,VP150,QS8x4,EP600 v2
ADA-1000-2,3,1500-3
Air N2

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#431230 - 02/07/19 01:54 PM Re: Upgraditis could use some help....ok alot of help [Re: Mojo]
Michael13 Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 11/29/13
Posts: 28
Wow, ya! i defiantly don't have the money to spend on a receiver that has double the output. However i don't mind spending money on a great A/V receiver now and adding a pre out a little later. (i was all over the Onkyo's as its always been a want for myself, but the Yamaha Avenatage 880/1080's are looking quite nice. (yamaha was my first ever system :D)

What type of pre amp would drive the M5's, or M60s in terms of power ? would 500 watts be sufficient or is that not enough to get the full range.

Also sorry if this is a stupid question, but with the pre Amp set up, does that "available power" now become useful to the other channels, if they were to call for it?

Also i was hoping for a few M60 V4 owners to chime in, the wife surprised me last night when i told her i wanted to upgrade and she said "well you better do it soon" i practically fell to my knees, the audio gods have been whispering in her sweet sweet kind ears lol.

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#431233 - 02/07/19 08:09 PM Re: Upgraditis could use some help....ok alot of help [Re: Michael13]
Mojo Offline
axiomite

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 5948
Regarding how much power is sufficient for the M5s, it depends how far away you are. I'm 10 feet away from mine and I figured I need 256 peak Watts to reproduce a 20dB peak from a nominal 2W (81dBC) listening level.

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#431238 - 02/08/19 03:19 PM Re: Upgraditis could use some help....ok alot of help [Re: Mojo]
Michael13 Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 11/29/13
Posts: 28
Thank you for all your support Mojo, i really appreciate your advice and expertise.

Im going to email Axiom and get the ball rolling.

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#431240 - 02/08/19 07:36 PM Re: Upgraditis could use some help....ok alot of help [Re: Michael13]
Mojo Offline
axiomite

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 5948
You're welcome, Michael. You'll be wondering how you lived with those M22s for so long.
_________________________
M100,VP160,QS10HPx2,EP800,M5HP,M3,M50 v4
M80,VP150,QS8x4,EP600 v2
ADA-1000-2,3,1500-3
Air N2

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#431244 - 02/09/19 02:37 AM Re: Upgraditis could use some help....ok alot of help [Re: Michael13]
brendo Offline
devotee

Registered: 10/14/14
Posts: 479
Loc: West coast Canada
Another receiver in the 1500 ball park range is the NAD757. Highly regarded 7.2 with ATMOS outputs {Enabled}, also has DIRAC.
More comparable to the Anthem MRX720. As opposed to the MRX520 with 5.2.
Plus A.R.C. and Dirac are supposed to be the best room corrections at the moment.
Definitely more real power than an Onkyo or Yammie. I was an Onkyo guy for years, the last year I've gone Anthem and couldn't be happier.

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#431251 - 02/11/19 08:15 AM Re: Upgraditis could use some help....ok alot of help [Re: Michael13]
Michael13 Offline
hobbyist

Registered: 11/29/13
Posts: 28
Thanks Brendo, ill defiantly add that to my list of reviews.

I still haven't decided if i want to invest in Atmos, especially if we could get some DTS support through a streaming service to say the least. I still love my QS8's theyre soo immersive already. But im sure eventually i will add something to my set up.

How much of an inprovement in sound quality is the Anthem compared to yiur previous Onkyos?

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