Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Novice updating system..

I'm updating my av receiver. My current set up consists of M60s, VP150 QSR8s and an EP350. Have been very happy with this set up. Recently I had a chance to hear an atmos system and was impressed with the sound field. I am looking at a Denon AVR-X4500. Is there an option for me to get the same results with Axioms? I am far from an expert and looking for advice. Thanks!

If you want to go with Atmos, then the QS8s will have to be replaced with bipolar speakers like M3 or M5.

Since I upgraded to Axiom version 4 speakers which included a VP160 centre and QS10 surrounds, I don't feel I need Atmos. I'm not saying Atmos isn't cool; I just feel the 5.1 I have is good enough for me.

Adding high power amplification like the ADAs has moved my system to an entirely different level. I run a 7 year-old Onkyo by the way.

Bipolar?

Perhaps he is, but he might not take that comment well! :-)

Monopole speakers all around is best for Atmos. I replaced four QS8s with four on-wall M3s, lowered them to be just above seated head level, and used four more on-wall M3s mounted to my ceiling for the overheads. I have a room with a lot of soundproofing (and acoustical treatments), and there was no way that I was going to try to retro-fit 4 in-ceiling speakers, through my ceiling's double 5/8" drywall, plus GreenGlue, plus hat channel and whisper clips, with my master bedroom right above the theater room. If I was building from scratch again and could have designed back-boxes to keep things soundproofed still, I would have gone in-ceiling.

Anyway, it is really impressive when you get a well mixed movie. Be aware that many times it isn't what you hear when watching an Atmos (or DTS:X) encoded movie that you notice, but it is what you don't hear if you turn off the overheads that makes you realize how more enveloping these audio formats are.

I sure messed that up. The QS are bipolar. Nick is correct.

A great question though in my mind is should you spend the money on new speakers and a new receiver to go Atmos or is it better to stick with 5.1 or 7.1, and get better amplification? Of course it's great if you can do both.

Before the VP160v4, QS10, 800v4 and ADAs, I could not listen to movies anywhere close to reference. And while I thought my system was loud enough for music, I know now my peaks were being compressed by my Onk. The soundscape in my room is now completely immersive and non-fatiguing even beyond reference level.

Well, technically the QS series are quad polar.

Per the main QS product page, "... multi-directional Quadpolar Surrounds ..."

As for Atmos of improving a 5.1 or 7.1 setup, I will say this. I continue to hear this at CEDIA every year... "Atmos won't make a poor 5.1, 7.1, or 9.1 setup sound better. You need to have a solid quality foundation before thinking about adding height speakers."

Now you can hit a point of diminishing returns, or a low ROI based off of your own wants... Is your current setup providing plenty of clean power, or would "going separates" or upgrading speakers be worth the cost? vs Is your current setup providing a solid enough base that jumping to Atmos would be a great upgrade, or do you again need to tidy up a few sound issues with your setup (including room acoustical treatments)? Those are rhetorical questions not specific to you, but just things that people should weigh.

For me, I wanted to jump into Atmos back in 2014 when I was at the Dolby booth at CEDIA when they made the announcement. I already had a lot of room treatments, and built the room with good mathematical dimensions, had added a 2nd sub to smooth out bass, etc, so I had a very solid base to work with making the jump to Atmos the right decision for me. I opted for a significant upgrade to my $800 Onkyo receiver with my Anthem MRX-1120 which really made my Axioms come to life.

It certainly wasn't a cheap upgrade either. Traded in four QS8s, bought eight on-wall M3s, and bought the Anthem (which is still a current model), so you can do the math and it was a pricey upgrade for sure, but it was the "right" decision for where I was at.

Yup. Good reasoning, Nick. BTW, the QS10 is now pentapolar...LOL. Actually all QSs can be classified as bipolar because their drivers all fire in phase.

Hey, don't shoot the messenger. LOL. I just quoted Axiom themselves. hehehe

I know.

BTW, I remember the photo of you on the staircase at CEDIA.

Yup. LOL

That was from a few CEDIAs ago.

Nick, if I have eight EP800v4, and M100 on the side and ceiling, with LFR1100 active up front, is that a good enough platform to work from for Atmos?

Mojo ... think you should go for it and tell us ...
Just secure those ceiling M100 well ... It might ruin your day if one shook loose.


Other wise perhaps ... that's too conventional for your tastes ...
Maybe wait for Craigs experiment with 4 LFRs ...

I'm not sure if ATMOS or DTS will be configurable for that ...
but if it works and can give him a 360 degree sound stage ....

then the next experiment is to put 4 LFRs (perhaps a smaller version of LFR) above those for heights ... Mojo think about it ... it's the ultimate stacking ... how could you pass it up!!! Maybe Ian or Andrew might be able to tell us if that even has a chance of working

As for Subs Ian tells me that 4 EP600 would be the way to go ... to get smooth very deep base though out the room. Surprisingly the EP600 claims the prize for the deepest base (larger enclosure for it's driver) ... it's just not a loud and an 800. Think everyone sees the 800 as the ultimate in axioms sub line up and skips the 600 without giving it a real look ... I know I did. I still had the non-V4 specs in my head.

All the M100 will be of the wall-mount type.

The 600 does not go lower than the 800. Ian has 600s because Amie won't let him upgrade. Go four 800s.

Wall-mount LFRs may be good.

Your right ... but

In my conversation with Ian I'm sure he told me it went lower because the driver was in an larger enclosure. The 800 has a divider between it's drivers so each has less space. That was different from what I remembered ... So I looked it up and what was displayed said that the 800 went down to 13Hz while the 600 went to 12 ... but now its back to what I remembered in the first place

Think Ian is gaslighting me!!!

Nahhh...the 800 drivers make use of the entire enclosure. There's a window brace in there but it allows for free air flow.

I think he told you this after one of his merry parties.

The 800v4 is simply excellent!

Think the LFRs would need to be suspended from the ceiling as they need space behind them to work.

Bet you a beer that in the V4 they are separate ... more like two stacked 500's.
I'm sure it's excellent in either case!

The cabinets can have "wings" on them.

Ok.

Mojo ... the wireless EP600 and EP800 writeup are different from the non-wireless.
The wireless has the specs I was quoting while the non-wireless has the specs I remembered.

Which is correct?

Maybe they're both correct.

ahh ... thought you would be off line pulling a driver off your 800 to claim your beer
... a man has to have priorities ...

I think the wired and wireless are the same speaker with the same specs... only how they get their signal differ.

My 800 was hand-built and tested in the chamber by Ian himself. Ian wrote and tested the 'nad tickler/gut punch code. Ian hand-selected and populated all parts for the amp. Ian created the custom artwork for the amp plate and then hand-tested every node of that amp. Ian built the box and the drivers and connected it all up and tested it as a system in the chamber. He then climbed the 30 meter pole outside in a blizzard at -28C and measured it in 4pi space. He then signed one driver and dragged Andrew from the bar at 2:30 am to sign the other driver. Ian then blessed it with Axiom holy water and packed it up and put it on the fed ex truck. There is no way, absolutely no way, I am going to desecrate his work by disemboweling that holy 800.

By the way, while he was doing all that, Ian also came up with 4 new inventions and managed to please Amie at the same time!

Mojo, think you have a start of a new religion ...
"And the 800 artifact is proof of his existence ...The sound came forth and it was good"

I am ashamed that I believed that you might actually desecrate the 800 ..
and for what ... a beer ...

ahhhh Mojo, How about a six pack?

A six pack of 800v4?

If that's a brand of beer.

I see there were some missing numbers on the Wireless subs. I fixed that now. Both the EP600 and EP800 are programmed to be linear to 12 Hz. The cabinet volume per driver is slightly more in an EP600. Four EP600s can be a great combo instead of two EP800s; but there is always four EP800s!

Ian,

You need to fix the write-ups too ...

It is done. Thanks for the heads-up.