Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Best option for a little more power?

Hey all...I'm a novice in this game and have a question. My setup is a Denon x2300 receiver..a Paradigm cc570...EP500 sub..M80 mains...and Q8s. Would my best option for a little more power be to upgrade my receiver to one that has pre=amp inputs and then get a amplifier..or just jump up a few grades and get a better more powerful receiver? was thinking of just getting a x3500 and then pairing it with an outlaw 5 channel amp..Or if i went to a x4500h...would that be enough? any ideas or thoughts? Looking for the most cost effective way to do this...Thanks!

What changed that makes you believe you need more power?

Receiver amp sections are notoriously lacking in dynamic headroom so I would suggest going up in receiver models until you get to one with pre-outs. Then you could use your receiver to power the surrounds and get a 3-channel amp for your fronts. We have a 3-channel version of our ADA1000

https://www.axiomaudio.com/1000-amplifier

My family room where my system is is pretty big..approximately 25x15 open floor plan which includes my kitchen. I don't think I need a lot more ummpphhh, but I do feel I need a bit more than what I have to fill the space.

Are you missing the umph in music, movies or both?

With a room so large, An ADA would be a great advantage over most any A.V.R. alone.

Supposedly the THX rating is for rooms over 2000 Feet. Having that on my last receiver. There was no comparison to my ADA 1250x3 or the Power Amp. I was using previous.

Eric ... Accessories 4 less has the Marantz 5013 receiver on sale for $500. It has full pre outs. Add a 3 channel Ada-1000 and you will have a killer system.

I am still at a loss to understand why Eric believes he needs more power. I'm not saying he may not. I am just trying to understand what he feels he is lacking. Is it mid-bass punch, low frequency effects or loudness in general. What has changed in his environment or perception that is leading him to believe he needs more power?

Mojo ... you of all people should not use the word "need" when it comes to audio.

The man wants more. WANTS.

Hee hee...indeed...I am ready for active LFR II.

BTW Craig, I do this at work all the time. Customers give me solutions but they can't describe their problems.

You work at a massage parlor that specializes in happy endings?

Power to the Axiomites

Long days at the dealership are leading to some wild fantasies, eh?

Doubling your watts only gives you 3dB increase, crap, just had a JohnK memory.

Randy, that is correct. I have always been suspicious of more and more and more power. What are we really after with more power/what are we trying to solve? And at what point does it become unsafe?

These active LFRs are making me re-think everything about audio. I can have a completely engaging and soulful emotional experience at lower volumes.

I appeal to Axiom to introduce this technology to a more affordable line so that more consumers can engage in bliss. As to what subset of bliss a smaller speaker can produce relative to the LFR1100, I don't know.

music mainly...

Mojo....When I initially was deciding what components and speakers I wanted to get..I decided to spend the majority of the money on speakers...hence why I bought the low-end Denon. Had I known (my fault for not doing proper research) it didn't have pre-amp jacks..I would have bought the next model up that did. I guess the way I'm thinking about it..is that the 95w per channel..2 channels driven that my x2300 has.. just doesn't have the kick to get the most from the 5 speakers that I have it running. I've heard my uncles system..basically the same set-up as I have except he has q10s...receiver/amp..and the sound he gets is just "better"...fuller..for a lack of a better term...I've only recently gotten in higher end audio stuff...so not sure what terms to describe mid range punch etc. Thinking of either another Denon or Marantz around the 500-600 range...and looking at an Outlaw 5000 5x120w amp for around 620.

Now we're getting somewhere, Eric. Your uncle has QS10s! Read my QS10 product review. And know that my buddy, who is no different than you in his audio journey, has been listening to my QS10s since I got them and it's finally clicked for him that he needs them over his Klipsches. So he bought them. And he will drive them with his bottom-of-the-barrel Denon. And he will be happy.

I'd do the QS8 to QS10 trade-in first and then go from there. Of course if you can afford new separates, go for it.

For me, the QS10 upgrade, driven from my Onk, was bigger than the amps. In order of importance for me, for movies, it was as follows: 600v2 to 800v4 and almost a tie with 150v2 to 160v4, QS8v2 to QS10, amps, fronts. Know that for movies, M3s are really all I need; they don't see much action. I'm in a 4200 cu.ft room BTW.

I take it your M80s are v4?

Mojo...I'm not sure if I have v4 or not...I looked on my invoice and on the back of my speakers and I can't find a tag that says what version they are. Also..when I listened to my uncles system, he had qs8s...but traded them in on the qs10s...I actually have my uncles qs8s that he traded. The last time I visited he had the qs10s installed..and they sound killer!

Eric, you need to read my reviews (see below). Do not under-estimate what QS10, and in general v4, will do for you if you don't have v4. Moving to v4 is a much bigger upgrade than a new receiver or amp. That includes your 500. The sealed subs are the real deal!

QS10: very first review
https://www.axiomaudio.com/qs10-surround-sound-speakers

Fronts: scroll down to holography and black magic
https://www.axiomaudio.com/reviews/index/list/product/930/

Center: very first review
https://www.axiomaudio.com/reviews/index/list/product/27/

Sub: the Might from Dwight
https://www.axiomaudio.com/reviews/index/list/product/64/

With regard to the version, when did you buy the 500, QS8 and M80? If you bought them new after 2014, I expect they are v4. If so, the only one you should consider upgrading is the QS8 to a QS10.

Mojo.....Well after much deliberation..soul searching etc, I bought an amp. I also purchased a new Denon..just a step up from my previous one..the 3500 and ended up getting a Emotiva A-300. Basically just wanted to get a decent amp to see what the difference would be. Its not "louder" persay but it definitely sounds louder and more full...a great improvement for sure. I'm sure I will eventually get an ADA but didn't want to drop the cash right now since there are speakers I want to get before I go any further. Question though...my center is a Paradigm cc-570. I really want all Axiom stuff..I'm anal like that...lol. Would the vp150 be comparable to the 570? Or would it be comparible to the vp160? Also..right now my Qs8s are used as rear surround, but I'd like to move them to the sides..problem is I don't have any good places to put them. Was thinking of mounting them to the ends of my coffee table. Would that even be feasible or would it sound bad? Just a thought I had...probably a bad one haha. Would probably go with QS10s in the rear or another bookshelf speaker maybe? Thanks for any advice

Eric, the 570 is a nice center. Don't spend money changing it. If you feel you must, go 160v4. Forget the 150. Axiom (thankfully) discontinued it. I love the sound from my 160v4.

Spend the money on QS10s and a sealed sub instead. Trade in the QS8. Mount them to the sides and not behind. Our ears are far less sensitive to sounds from behind. Don't mount them to the coffee table. Get ceiling brackets from Axiom and dangle them from above.

Did you find out if you have v4 M80s?

P.S. Have you tried running your speakers from the 3500 only? Any difference over the 2300?

Mojo
I bought my M80s in April of '17..v4?? I do have a sealed sub EP500 (love it!) When I first hooked it up and before the amp arrived, I listened to the 3500 on its own. A bit better sounding at louder volumes than the 2300...I can hear the difference, although minute. Can definitely tell when I hooked up the amp. 2.1 listening is WAYYYYYY better. Movies and such is about the same unless I really turn it up. I'm happy with it all around. It will "get me by" till I upgrade speakers. I could slide my couch back against the wall again so the Qs8s are at the sides...or I could just move them up and to the sides of the couch for movies..I have allowed extra speaker wire to each so I could move them around a bit to experiment. I'll get there!

Ideally, the QS8s should be at least a foot above your head.

If you bought the M80s new, then they are v4.

You've proved you needed more power and that's a wonderful thing.

I'm curious if you can hear the fans in that amp. Looks pretty sweet.

So far no...it doesn't even really get warm...runs very cool..