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#434672 - 12/04/19 06:28 PM Which Power Source for M60ti? Newbie.
Kodiak Online   content
regular

Registered: 12/01/19
Posts: 9
Loc: BC Canada
In the process of building my system up....

Just curious if anybody can recommend a good Integrated or pre / amp that would voice well with M60. I'm awaiting arrival of refurbed M60ti's. Just getting into hi fi. I bought a pair of Polk M70 Monitor V2. Wasn't impressed so I returned them. Dove in with Axioms at a price I could handle. Looking at Yamaha A-S801 also looking at IOATvxSA3 with the additional PA3.

How sensitive / easy to drive are the M60's really? ( 90db/1w/M)?

I've read on this forum ( Ian C's comments) that the M60ti tweet can be a bit bright, anything out there that would smooth that out from the source power?

Average living room...600sq ft with 8 foot ceilings.

Listening volume preference medium with regular extended sessions of loud to very loud.

Excited to enjoy my new 2 channel stereo hobby.

Thanks to all that respond.

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#434675 - 12/04/19 10:24 PM Re: Which Power Source for M60ti? Newbie. [Re: Kodiak]
Mojo Online   content
axiomite

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 6741
Can you please describe how far from the front and side walls your M60s will be placed, how far apart they will be placed and how far away you will be sitting? Is it rock you mostly listen to?

Your best bet for softening the tweeter is your tone control. Axiom at one time made in-line resistors available for the tweeters. You may or may not like that "fix" if it is still available.
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M2 coming
A-LFR/1000-8/500v4x2
1000-2,3,1500-3
100,160,QS10x2,800,M5x2,M3,M50 v4
had v2
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#434677 - 12/05/19 03:02 AM Re: Which Power Source for M60ti? Newbie. [Re: Kodiak]
Kodiak Online   content
regular

Registered: 12/01/19
Posts: 9
Loc: BC Canada
Thanks for your interest andreaching out. The space between the speakers will be 14 feet. They will be placed against a wall ( laterally ) and can be placed right backed up to the rear wall or moved out 2-3 feet into the room. I sit maximum 20 feet back but that can be adjusted by me simply moving my chair.

I enjoy a very wide variety of music. Very little true “ rock “. Neil Young, Dire Straits , Moody Blues, Weather Report,, 80’s melancholy synth, Janet Jackson, 90’s rap and R&B, huge list of soundtrack instrumentals, James Taylor, Fleetwood Mac. Occasional bass head stuff on my headphones.....:).

Lots of variety. I just started enjoying lapsteel guitar recently as it sounds pretty good on my current system. ( old Yamaha RX-:595 with a pair of Sansui sp35’s. ).

I’d view the resistor as a last resort I guess if available. But I’m a fan of tone controls and equalization. No snobbery here. But I do like the pure direct button on my yammy. Which is what I’ll be using as my amp until I upgrade. It’s 80watts per channel rms. My manual / specs show it peaks at 105 watts in 8 ohms. I’m just shopping around for some fresh power to get the most out of my m60. As I do enjoy it loud. Maybe my old Yamaha is good enough for now?

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#434679 - 12/05/19 08:11 AM Re: Which Power Source for M60ti? Newbie. [Re: Kodiak]
Mojo Online   content
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Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 6741
My first thought when I read your post was "Wow, this is one of those rare, big rooms that will let the M60s shine." Hopefully you have a lot of freedom in that room to experiment with soundstage width and depth which results from how wide you position the speakers and how far out you can get them from the front wall. 14 feet apart is a massive width compared to most on here. If you can position their backs 3 feet away from the front wall, you'll enjoy a deep and wide soundstage.

At 20 feet back, when 1 Watt is fed into the M60s, they'll put out 70dB in sound pressure level. 70dB is a "quiet flute in the background" territory. To get to 24dB above that quiet level, you would need 256 peak Watts per side.

When listening to say Fleetwood Mac, the nominal sound pressure level may be about 80dB for moderate listening. That level requires about 10 Watts at 20 feet. When Mick smacks the drums, that's a 12dB rise in sound pressure demand - maybe more depending on how well-mastered that production is. To get from 80dB and 10W to 92dB, you need 150 additional peak Watts for a total of 160W peak per channel.

You can see then how some may see your space as both a blessing given your speaker placement options and a curse given the power demands. My advice is not to buy any additional components yet. Experiment with placing your speakers using your existing components. You may end up sitting closer than 20 feet and that will lower the power demand.

As for shrill highs, you may not experience it in your room. Avoiding toeing in the speakers can help with that.
_________________________
M2 coming
A-LFR/1000-8/500v4x2
1000-2,3,1500-3
100,160,QS10x2,800,M5x2,M3,M50 v4
had v2
N2,N3 maybe

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#434680 - 12/05/19 07:26 PM Re: Which Power Source for M60ti? Newbie. [Re: Kodiak]
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 6235
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
I was very happy with my M60ti's running off 70-80 WPC receivers as long as I didn't crank up to "wall of sound" levels... but when I added an Adcom >200 WPC amp I was surprised how much clearer the sound was at high volumes.

I'm talking "hold my beer and watch this" kind of volumes though, not normal listening.

The hard thing about your question is that preferred listening level is a very personal thing and every small change in listening level requires a non-trivial percentage increase in power.

It's an eighth of a turn from "happy with 25 WPC" to "OK with 75 WPC" and another eighth of a turn from there to >200 WPC and wondering what 350W would sound like.

With older M60s I found they sounded best with very little toe-in, however with v4's a bit more toe-in seemed best.

My impression is that M60's are relatively typical for modern speakers in terms of sensitivity, although I know that's probably not much help.

I did notice that a couple of reviews for those Polks talked specifically about needing a lot of power, but it's not clear if that was to get "normal" listening levels or to get the most out of the speakers. If the latter, then one could probably argue that the same applies to M60s and most modern speakers in the same range.


Edited by bridgman (12/05/19 07:48 PM)
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#434682 - 12/06/19 03:22 PM Re: Which Power Source for M60ti? Newbie. [Re: Kodiak]
Kodiak Online   content
regular

Registered: 12/01/19
Posts: 9
Loc: BC Canada
Guys, Thanks for the responses and valuable input. Really appreciate it. Testament to the great things ive read about this community.

First briefly the Polks.... i think they had some level of potential. Part of the return was how they looked in my room. Way too tall and black. Our house is very " cabin like ". Lots of wood grain and earth tones. The black monoliths were way too contrasted. The Polks ( Monitor 70 V2 ) also sounded very hollow and not braced well when when rapped against. I do think you are right, they needed more power to hear the possible potential. But even with my modest receiver I wasn't wowed, or even drawn into the music. I didn't get that feeling of, " hmmmmm, there's something here". I'm not a total noob... Dad was / is into hifi. Heard lots of mid grade Paradigm and PSB over the years.Some old Koss M80's too, now that's an interesting speaker. Etc. But i digress....

I'll take your advice and just wait and hear what things sound like in my space and play with the room and placement too a bunch. I can set my room with another tighter configuration. 9-11 feet between speakers ( adjustable ) and listening spot 14-16 back, again i can adjust that too. This set up would be more cornered into the room so might become a bit boomy maybe? we'll see. The above mentioned setup is better in terms of day to day living and having the system blend into the room better.

I totally grasp the power agenda. To get a 3db rise audible sound increase or to portray dynamics doubling of power ( as a starting point) is required. This increases exponentially. I can appreciate the idea too of having that extra power in reserve and improving clarity. Perhaps an ADA-1000/1250 or 1500 2 channel ( 1500 maybe to accommodate future upgrades...) with a well thought out / appropriate sounding pre amp is on the horizon..... It will be hard to resist adding more power to the system with the looming idea of more potential. I like the hold my beer and watch this comment, nice.

Bottom line is sounds like i've got some playing to do with set up and room configuration and some listening over time to see if this all good or not with in my 30 days to retun them if no good. ( I doubt this will be the case as i've read a ton of great things about axiom and feel the company is understated, at least that's my perception.) But man do people rag hard on Axiom when they get the chance, not sure why? Everything i've read from the company or seen videos comes across as honest and science based with a solid history and progression. Oh well, that's the internet I guess.

This is all moot though until i actually hear the Axiom " sound"! Still waiting on arrival of the M60's.

Thanks again really appreciate the responses and will update as things get arrive and get set up here. Keep the the conversation going if you like, it's fun to chat.

Noticed the signatures guys....LFR's? Very cool. Would love to hear that set up some day.

All the best.

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#434683 - 12/06/19 03:36 PM Re: Which Power Source for M60ti? Newbie. [Re: Kodiak]
Mojo Online   content
axiomite

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 6741
Kodiak, one of the things you might want to experiment with if you will place the 60s in a corner or close to wall boundaries is port plugs. Each M60 has three ports. Axiom has them available.

How you position speakers in a room and where you listen from has a lot to do with how much you will enjoy them. I was reminded of that again at my buddy's place last night. His floor-standing KEFs are very similar in sound to M3s but they sound like a $10 speaker from his seating location. When I had him sit 5 feet closer, it was a revelation.
_________________________
M2 coming
A-LFR/1000-8/500v4x2
1000-2,3,1500-3
100,160,QS10x2,800,M5x2,M3,M50 v4
had v2
N2,N3 maybe

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#434684 - 12/06/19 04:16 PM Re: Which Power Source for M60ti? Newbie. [Re: Kodiak]
Kodiak Online   content
regular

Registered: 12/01/19
Posts: 9
Loc: BC Canada
Mojo, Very good anecdotal evidence. Makes me think I didn't really give those Polks a fair shake. Oh well. KEF have a good reputation, looked at those too. Really nice. I'd love one of their powered setups for my bedroom.

I'll look into the port plugs. Good call. If i can find the near perfect balance of sound stage image and performance while having the speakers in practical location for the living room would be great for more casual day to day listening and living. ( And would be more secured against the attack and curiosity of the children that live in my house. Ha Ha....little buggers.) And then possibly experiment with the " larger wider 14 foot" set up which could be a secondary position for more extended private higher SPL listening. More like an " event " and move everything and set it all up for a weekend of engrossed listening. I'm liking that idea.

Thanks for pointing out the ports, checking them out now.

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#434700 - 12/09/19 08:51 AM Re: Which Power Source for M60ti? Newbie. [Re: Kodiak]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13635
Loc: Iowa
Back in the day when I first came to the Axiom family and before I enclosed in my theater room I was driving M60tis with a Denon 2805 in a 900 sq ft room and it was amazing.
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#434701 - 12/09/19 09:16 AM Re: Which Power Source for M60ti? Newbie. [Re: Kodiak]
Mojo Online   content
axiomite

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 6741
Randy, I remember that. Before my v2 arrived in 2007, I was driving a pair of Bose 601s, a Soundstage centre and two plastic Sony bookshelves with my Denon 2105. The Denon was de-commissioned in 2012 when I got my current Onkyo TX-NR818 and brought my v2 to life. Then v4 arrived which evoked passionate hosannas causing me to upgrade eternally until I could no more!

I lent the Denon 2105 and Bose 601s to my friend who was over-joyed with the sound until I replaced the 601s with M3s and scrambled her sensibilities only to do it again with M5s which she ordered in walnut natural satin after a mere 30 seconds of listening. Now she wants to try the M100s for fear of missing out and does not want to try the M100s for fear of triggering Mojo madness.

And such is the cycle of audio life, Mr. Porter.
_________________________
M2 coming
A-LFR/1000-8/500v4x2
1000-2,3,1500-3
100,160,QS10x2,800,M5x2,M3,M50 v4
had v2
N2,N3 maybe

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