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#434712 - 12/10/19 11:43 AM AVR specs explained - need more power?
minorc Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 87
Loc: Sudbury, Ontario
Hey,

I was reading my AVR specs on pioneer's webpage :
https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/AV-Receivers/Elite+Receivers/SC-LX701#specs

Power Output per channel 4ohm - 2ch driven 220

If i'm running 5.1, would this number be lower due to additional channels driven?
It's not an advertised number

Considering picking up a separate power amp to run my M80s and possibly my VP180 center as well, my front soundstage doesn't feel as "grand" as it should.

Future plans will include 2 more channels for surround backs

Looking for suggestions

Thanks!
_________________________
VP180, M80, QS8, EP500 Pioneer Elite LX701, Rotel RMB1585

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#434713 - 12/10/19 12:25 PM Re: AVR specs explained - need more power? [Re: minorc]
Mojo Online   content
axiomite

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 7008
"If i'm running 5.1, would this number be lower due to additional channels driven?"

Yes, indeed. Note too that the 220W figure is based on 1KHz input (with only 2 channels driven).

Are you on v4 M80s? How far apart are they, how far is your main listening position, how far away are they from the front wall and side walls?

I ask because you can make your soundstage bigger, even with less power, if you have the right version and position them well within the room and with respect to you.
_________________________
A-LFR/1000-8 & 2/500v4x2
1000-3,1500-3
100,160,QS10x2,800,M5x2,M2/3/50v4
had v2;v4 FOC rock
Nx maybe

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#434716 - 12/10/19 03:08 PM Re: AVR specs explained - need more power? [Re: minorc]
minorc Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 87
Loc: Sudbury, Ontario
Here are some pictures I could find on my phone, I have since painted and done a few other cosmetic things.

Before screen - speaker placement

After screen - the center channel is pulled underneath the screen
_________________________
VP180, M80, QS8, EP500 Pioneer Elite LX701, Rotel RMB1585

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#434717 - 12/10/19 03:09 PM Re: AVR specs explained - need more power? [Re: minorc]
minorc Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 87
Loc: Sudbury, Ontario
The screen is 120"

The speakers are about 9-9.5 feet apart on an angle pointed to the main seating position

10' ceilings

I'm on V3 M80's, V4 VP180, V4 QS8


Edited by minorc (12/10/19 03:12 PM)
_________________________
VP180, M80, QS8, EP500 Pioneer Elite LX701, Rotel RMB1585

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#434722 - 12/10/19 04:59 PM Re: AVR specs explained - need more power? [Re: minorc]
Mojo Online   content
axiomite

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 7008
And you are sitting from where the photos were taken? Is that about 9 feet from each speaker?
_________________________
A-LFR/1000-8 & 2/500v4x2
1000-3,1500-3
100,160,QS10x2,800,M5x2,M2/3/50v4
had v2;v4 FOC rock
Nx maybe

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#434726 - 12/10/19 07:09 PM Re: AVR specs explained - need more power? [Re: minorc]
brendo Offline
aficionado

Registered: 10/14/14
Posts: 542
Loc: West coast Canada
All 3 of your mains would greatly benefit from more power. Being all rated 4 Ohms.
I have M80v4, VP160 QS10 M3 M22 in my system and use an ADA1250x3 for my mains.
My Room is about 19x24x7 with one side of the 24 foot open to rooms/toilet etc. The ADA has no problems filling all the space I have.

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#434727 - 12/10/19 07:33 PM Re: AVR specs explained - need more power? [Re: Mojo]
minorc Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 87
Loc: Sudbury, Ontario
Originally Posted By Mojo
And you are sitting from where the photos were taken? Is that about 9 feet from each speaker?


m80's are 10'6" center to center from eachother and the main seating position is 11' away
_________________________
VP180, M80, QS8, EP500 Pioneer Elite LX701, Rotel RMB1585

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#434728 - 12/10/19 07:55 PM Re: AVR specs explained - need more power? [Re: minorc]
Mojo Online   content
axiomite

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 7008
That's a respectable geometry. Given how close the speakers are to the side walls, you won't have a soundstage outside of speaker boundaries but you should have a nice soundstage within. It should also be tall with your 10 foot ceilings.

In 2.1, you should have no problem getting a wall of sound. Is the speaker polarity correct at the receiver and speakers? Also try with and without sub. If your sub is not dialed in correctly, it can mess up the imaging. Finally, try not toeing in which may widen the soundstage.
_________________________
A-LFR/1000-8 & 2/500v4x2
1000-3,1500-3
100,160,QS10x2,800,M5x2,M2/3/50v4
had v2;v4 FOC rock
Nx maybe

Top
#434770 - 12/16/19 02:11 PM Re: AVR specs explained - need more power? [Re: minorc]
MatManhasgone Online   confused
connoisseur

Registered: 05/06/14
Posts: 1089
Loc: Lost in the great wide yonder
AV equipment manufacturers like Pioneer don't like to give you any real usable spec.

The M80 speakers are listed at 4ohm, you do know that this number is just really a guidline. If you look on the graphs that Ian gives with his speakers, you will see that in the deep bass sound the speakers are dipping below the 4ohm power, and at the 1K tone level that your Pioneer gave you an amperage rating, the speakers are running at 9ohm. So I don't know if the Pioneer is really going to give you your 220 watts of power. And the bigger question to hand is that Peek before they start melting inside?

You can get away with a lower power receiver if you put in a good enough sub and set your crossover high enough so that you really are not drawing any power from your receiver below the 100hz where the amount of current required for the speakers is large. The second option is don't ever play it load.

Not trying to sound like a snob, but I have yet to ever get a good sound from any of my speakers I have ever owned from a Pioneer (or Yamaha, modern Denon, Merantz, Onkio) I have tried a whole load of different models and eventually decided it just didn't give a good sound.

I run an Anthem AVM60 with an Axiom ADA1000 amp and found that I get a good clean sound that I like. In my bedroom, I have an old Nakamichi AV1 that is an old analogue amp and it again sounds great. it can breathe. It has life inside of it. I find that most of the mass market receivers all sound compressed.
_________________________
Anthem: AVM60
Axiom: ADA1000, LFR1100, VP180, QS8, EP500, M3, M3comp
AudioSource: Amp One/A

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#434771 - 12/16/19 02:40 PM Re: AVR specs explained - need more power? [Re: minorc]
minorc Offline
old hand

Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 87
Loc: Sudbury, Ontario
I am looking into a separate power amp for my M80's, between the Anthem 225 or 325, Rotel 1582mkii and to a lesser extent the parasound A21...I've looked at the Axiom ADA amps.. are they really that good?
_________________________
VP180, M80, QS8, EP500 Pioneer Elite LX701, Rotel RMB1585

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