Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo Out with the new and in with the newer

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M2 mid-woofer in action. I love the SNAP! from it and brashness with sax and brass. No bottoming out and no port noise.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dbcSBrC2N433hb0nkj3vYxa3Bf-vxx6Z/view?usp=drivesdk

I've had the M2s going in the living room all day for main and background listening. They continue to impress. They are an absolutely perfect balance between the low spatial resolution of the M3 and M50 and the high spatial resolution of the active LFRs. Ian is a genius!

These are the first speakers that, with the right material, are giving me a 180 degree sound field in my living room.

Craig, these would be a fine addition to your collection.

Hello Mojo

I had a condo, years ago, when I first got my M3Tis. I hooked them up to my Antique Sound Labs MG Si 15DT, an Ah! Njoe Tjoeb Marantz based CD player with a tube output stage and upgraded Burr Brown op amp, donkey dick power cord and Ediswan 12au7 tube, a little Velodyne sub, Maple Shade Double Golden Helix speaker wire, and Maple Audio Ambiance interconnects.

OK, now in that particular room, everything sounded really good. But the above system, well it produced the holy WALL OF SOUND. Detail? Yes. Sound stage? Oh my yes. Midrange, a bit pronounced, but beautiful.

Now, my M22 Tis did not work in that system. But the M3Tis, earned my affection and respect, even compared to some very expensive and accomplished speakers.

Although the M22Tis did not work in that system, (in that room) My M22V2s, in my current abode, sounded great when driven by that same Antique Sound Labs amp, which by now is about 20 years old. (recapped with the sausage sized V-Cap oil teflon cap, and running Gold Lion KT88s and a pair of Telefunken 12ax7s which are worth more than the amp.

I find the M22s very detailed, and, on occasion, they produce more bass than I expect. If you check the frequency response curves at Soundstage Network measurements, you will see that the M22 has an enviably flat response line (not so much a curve) from its usable bass to its highest frequency.

So, what is the conclusion? The quality of sound produced by speakers is very dependent on the room. And, as to preferences, well, that's why the Eternal One made both chocolate and vanilla.

Mojo - You are trying very hard to bring information to the board based on your listening experiences. This is a good thing.

So - based on this - please take this note as nothing more than an attempt to assist.

You have preferences in speakers, and this is great. When you declare something is "better," this is no longer an opinion. It is a declarative. When you say the bass from an M2 is "better" than is the bass from an M5, you are merely expressing your opinion, but you make it seem like it's a fact.

It would be much more helpful if you would make statements along the line of "I preferred the M2 in this room."

There is nothing wrong with that.

The M2 is flat to about 70 Hz and the M5 to about 50 Hz. By definition, the M5 has "better bass." But you like the M2 over the M5.

When one adds into this that you claim the bass from the LFR-1100's is "better" than the bass from the Axiom subs, the response curve on the speakers you think are "worse" roll off higher in frequency than do the speakers you consider "better."

It's a preference.

We have done 100's of blind tests at our place, and Ian has done 1000's. It's always an education when you do these. You learn as much about the listener as you do the product in question.

We have had people who don't like the sound of bass below 60 to 80 Hz. In fact, this is not that unusual.

My personal preference is a flat response curve to 10 Hz. I have found this in blind tests. That doesn't mean what I prefer will match up to what others prefer. Many have preferred the sound with no subwoofer in the system.

An article on an on line "Webzine" recently had a gent saying he would NEVER use a subwoofer, as he doesn't like boomy bass.

A properly dialed in subwoofer will not be boomy. Nor will a 6.5 inch driver sound "faster" at, say, 40 Hz than will a 12 inch driver.

You are learning a lot during your journey. So please allow a finish to this - take it from someone who has done thousands of blind tests in his 40 years in this hobby - your preferences are great. They may even change.

Take the time to reflect on your listening sessions, and think about what makes you prefer one sonic presentation to another. Try to do it without knowing what speakers you are listening to, if you can. Blind or double blind will work.

We will tackle your front end another time.

Yup Mr. Mojo.

Love ya!

Phil and Craig, you will note I prefaced my observations with qualifications along the lines of "In my 1700 cu.ft. living room..." and "In my 4,200 cu. ft. home theater...". I explained how the bass from the M5s did not integrate well with my living room but the bass from the M2s did. Conversely, I explained how the M5s sound better in my home theater without a sub but the M2s do not.

It is FACT that the M2s sound better than the M5s in my living room. It is FACT that the M5s sound better in my home theater than the M2s. Throw in my subs in the home theater and it is FACT the M2s sound better than the M5s without Audyssey. Bring in Audyssey and it's FACT that it's anyone's guess whether it's the M5s or M2s playing. It is also FACT the active LFR1100s in my living room present better bass than all the subs and M100s or M5s or M2s or M3s or M50s driven from ADAs in my home theater.

I've stated all this before. I am telling you all these are the facts in my two spaces with my ears-brain and the rooms, positions and equipment I have repeatedly documented. I can also tell you two ladies and three guys made the same observations.

I post all this with the hope that readers will find it easier to select speakers for their rooms and place them as best as possible to maximize enjoyment.

I think it's cool your having so much fun with your various speakers.
It's surprising how different some peoples tastes in sound can be.
I like lower end big fan of subs. Some older people I know don't enjoy low end at all.

I like lows too. It's just that M100s, M5s and M3s are 16dB too hot in my smallish living room. This isn't a surprise given the bump in their frequency response curves. The M2 low frequency response falls off a cliff below 70Hz which is absolutely great because my room modes boost the low end enough to make it wonderful to listen to. The M50 is much better and I only have to knock that back by 6dB. The actives are perfection!

I've discovered a ton playing with these Axioms. I am trying to pass my observations on so others can benefit. I can understand though how much of what I say may be difficult for others to accept. Listeners at my place find it difficult to accept what they hear until they check for themselves.

Phil, you should know that donkey dick you have can make even M3ti and M22ti sound great. The M3v4 is wonderful and so is the M2. Please do yourself a solid and upgrade.