Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater The LFR 1100 Actives Have Landed

Lo and behold the FedEx truck pulled up this morning with my new speaker system. It’s been a bit of a journey since I first contemplated this purchase but they’re finally here. I’ll probably let them sit for a day or so in case they were handled by someone with Covid-19. We’ve been hit really hard in this part of the world. For those of you who have attained these, any suggestions about set up, break in, etc.? And curious, what was the first thing that you listened to?

Ian promises “audio nirvana.” Hoping for great things; this is the single most expensive audio purchase I’ve ever made.

My single piece of advice is do not mis-wire the woofers or mid-woofers to the tweeters. They will ignite as physics says they should.

Korkster - The surest way to make sure you wire the speakers properly is to connect each DSP out to the amp channel then to the speaker, one driver set at a time.

Front woofer DSP out > AMP Channel 1 in > Woofer input on speaker
Front mid DSP out > AMP Channel 2 in > Mid range input (front) on speaker

Do this on all ten sets of drivers, and you will be fine. It's tedious, but effective.

Make sure you put the speakers so the slight angle on the rear angles the drivers out. Start with the speakers with no toe in, and experiment over time.

They are also so neutral and clear, you may not be "blown away." Nothing jumps out at you - but you will start hearing details unlike ever before. You will notice you can listen for hours with no fatigue. You will realize the limiting factor is the quality level of the recording.

Thanks very much for the advice. I will make sure to take my time in hooking everything up; that’s part of the fun anyway. Anxious to see how this goes.

The real fun is hauling them all around your room to minimize the soundstage-trashing effects of position error.

I got everything hooked up yesterday and had a chance to do some listening last night. I had forgotten how you described the sound until reading this again this morning. The first thought that came to mind last night was what you said, “clear,” incredibly clear without sounding too bright. And non-fatiguing. And superb dynamics and contrast. A couple of songs that I listened to last night have a spot where there’s a pause and then the vocals return, and that contrast was impressive, if that makes any sense. Hard to explain, I’m not expert critic. BTW, I thought female vocals is where they really shine.

However, I’m missing a sense of what I’d describe as “fullness” maybe? The low end seemed a bit shallow. My wife said they sounded a bit “digital” to her; not sure what that means but...I kinda get it. It could be that the amps (ADA 1500’s) need to break in a bit and “warm” up. I was a bit disappointed in how brass instruments sounded, somewhat muted I thought, as opposed to acoustic guitars that sounded really sweet.

And you were also right in that I was not “blown away.” But what detail! I have a lot of listening to do in the next few weeks, and maneuver them around a bit. I put furniture sliders under each one to make it easier. These things are beasts to carry.

Korkster - Give the speakers a couple of weeks. One thing I will do for some break in time is loop a CD (yes, I am old school) that has some deep bass tracks. You don't need extreme volume - just enough to get everything moving. On our actives, the bass got progressively better over the first month.

A few years ago, Danny Ritchie (well known in the DIY community) ran a test with some high quality 6.5 inch woofers he uses in some full range speakers. After 100 hours, the Fs of the drivers was lower ... all the Parameters had changed. It was easy to plug the "fresh" speaker data and the "broken in" speaker data into the modeling software and "see" that the broken in speaker had a better bass response curve.

What is your preamp?

Thanks Craig. I am using the pre-outs on the Pioneer SC-1222 receiver that I was using before. I know its far from top of the line, but the speakers were a big enough purchase, so any upgrade there is going to have to wait a while. I’m using an Oppo BP-103 as my CD player, again far from top of the line, but....

The other thing I realized this morning, after reading your post again, is that I have the speakers backwards; the rear drivers are facing inward instead of outward. I was so proud of the fact that I got all of the wiring hooked up correctly, I forgot about that. Not sure if that will make tremendous difference, but will definitely reverse the two today. Duh!

Korkster - the slight angle won't affect the bass response. In fact, one would wonder how many could hear a difference under blind conditions between the two positions of the speakers.

The best recommendation is the break CD or streaming track. Also - check the polarity on the speaker wires to make sure all positives are to positives and negatives to negatives.

I’ll have to find one of my cd’s with some deep bass and put that on replay for a while. Thanks! I checked all of my speaker connections and its all good. I got all of the cabling from Axiom, color coded, which was a huge help; made things so much easier.

BTW, I’m looking forward to reading your review some day. Think I saw somewhere that you had written something up and sent to Ian and Andrew.

Check your DSP cross-over dial to make sure the LFRs are receiving a full range signal.

You could always check the woofers with a 9V battery.

Hi Korky,

I would suggest double checking the wiring of everything, it is easy for something to get crossed. Especially check the speaker wire phase to each woofer section; follow the copper colored wire to ensure it goes from the positive on the amp to the positive on the speaker for each woofer section. One woofer section wired out-of-phase will sound thin. If you could e-mail me some pictures that would be great too.

Hi Ian,

I double and triple checked the wiring and all copper colored wire is attached to red on the banana plugs and all banana plugs are red to red and black to black. I’m having a look at the Pioneer SC-1222 to see if something may be configured wrong in the set up. Which leads me to a question for everyone: how does a receiver/processor determine gain levels with amplifiers when first connected? The Pioneer has a proprietary room correction system called Multi-Channel Acoustic Calibration System (MCACC), similar to Audessy with use of a microphone at the listening position and running test signals, but I have not run that yet, should I? I have manually gone in and configured the system to no center channel and no subwoofer, but did not run the MCACC yet.

However, all of this said, the mids and highs are breathtaking, crystal clear! The first tracks I played once everything was set up were off an XRCD compilation called “Best Audiophile Voices,” mostly female vocalists from Jane Monheit to Eva Cassidy to Allison Krause. Stunning! The first thought that came to mind was clarity. As I said, crystal clear without being too bright. And as Craig said, non-fatiguing. I just need to do some tweaking, I think. My prior set up was bookshelves speakers (Ascend Acoustic Sierra-2’s with an entry level Def Tech sub w a 125w amp), and maybe the room misses the sub? I don’t know. I’m no bass fanatic, btw.

I’ll try to send you a couple of pictures of the room via email. Thanks for your interest.

Have you checked the DSP crossover knobs?

In the Pioneer, check that the front speakers are configured to run full range and not crossed over to something like 80Hz.

The receiver does not "know" how to set gain levels to the amps. You adjust gain via the volume knob.

You can run MCACC to set the relative levels and distances between all of your speakers. Depending on the vintage of MCACC, it may also do some "room correction". The actives have been the first speaker I've ever used that did not require correction in any of the rooms I tried them in. It would be interesting to hear what your results are.

I have checked over the DSP knobs, and the crossover knob is at “0”; the boundary compensation knob is at “off” ( the Actives are 14’ from the wall behind them.)

The AVR is configured with the front speakers set to “large” and the sub woofer turned off; this automatically turns off the crossover as well, for obvious reasons.

I also checked all of the wiring, and there’s a lot to check, and all of the connections are wired in phase.

All of that being said, I think this speakers are coming around a bit, or maybe its just my ears. I played the Holly Cole song “I Can See Clearly Now” and the acoustic bass that it starts with was very nice. I also played that Nils Lofgrin live piece that you all were talking about, bass and drum intro, and the bass was very much present, mid level a bit more than the lower end, but still had nice impact. BTW, you may want to check out another song from that live album, “Keith Don’t Go.” That will knock your socks off! The Actives just flat out shine, and I was only using YouTube via AirPlay off my IPad.

So, I think we’ll get there. I may have to play around with the positioning a bit, and remember that the room is large with high ceilings and open to the kitchen on one side.

Cork, they are 14 inches and not feet from the wall behind them, right?

How far apart are they, how far are you from them and what is the volume of your room? Those numbers will help me compare with my room and what I am hearing with regard to bass.

As I've said before, in my 1900 cu. ft. living room, the bass was ridiculously good. Never heard anything like it in a pair of speakers. This is at low, low volumes...-33 on my Pioneer pre-amp. When I moved them into my 4,200 cu. ft. space, I couldn't claim the same level of bass. I tried turning them up LOUD but then the HP drivers were clearly starting to object. This is with a 1500-2 feeding them. Much better than M100s though. Then I put the twin 500s in fed off the DSP which I crossed over at 40Hz and all was awesome.

Also, there is no difference between Audyssey XT32 engaged or not in two-channel with my three EP subs.

Oops, yes, 14 inches. The room is 16’ x 25’ with a 14’ vaulted ceiling. However, it opens up on the right side to the kitchen area, so it’s not a traditional 4 wall room. And the wall on the left side has a huge window, 2/3 of the wall is glass. So there are some acoustic challenges. I also have 2 ADA 1500’s driving them, btw.

I may just have to add a sub or two some day, but don’t tell my wife ;-). But they still sound phenomenal. Try that song “Keith Don’t Go” from the Nils Lofgrin’s live album, and turn it up (I had the volume at about -16 on the AVR). Really special, and I was just taking it off of YouTube.

Yup. Your room is big. That's why you're not salivating at the bass like I was in my living room. But, it's wonderfully linear bass even in a large room. No bloat, no murkiness, no flappy, floppy, fart-like fortissimos.

I've listened to that tune before. I know what you're talking about. And it sounds wonderful on my M2OW too!

I listen to a lot of youtube on the actives through bottom of the barrel sources. Well-recorded tunes sound amazing.

Yes, agreed on the quality of the bass, very musical. In that Lofgrin bass and drums intro, the plucking of the strings is sharp and crisp, no murkiness at all, or “fart-like fortissimos,” as you like to call it. :-)

I really am amazed at how good a couple of the sources on YouTube sound. I searched audiophile music one day, and a couple of sources pooed up, one is called “Audiophile Heaven,” that are really quite good. I’m not sure how they do it over YouTube, but it really seems to work quite well.

I think recording fidelity has multiple defining attributes.

There is fidelity in the form of waveform preservation/frequency response. This has to do with the quality of the recording gear. This includes low noise, frequency response, dynamic range.

Then there is fidelity in the form of spatial response. How well can you record the acoustics of the venue in order to preserve imaging and soundstage?

Some current recordings feature excellent frequency response but the spatial response is total shite. Some recordings from the 60s have shite frequency response but the spatial response is outstanding.

If I had to choose just one, I would take spatial response over frequency response any day. Of course I want both.

Korkster, DO NOT listen to Mojo!! He only listens to digital music and throws collectible knives at 12 inch vinyl tacked on the walls of his room.
If you want to make these new speakers sing; put on some good vinyl!

On another note; by all means, do get some subs into the room. With a large space, the mains alone will not do the job.

I have a 10,000 cubic foot area, open on one back side as you have and with an 18 foot vaulted ceiling. I run a pair of monster Bryston Model T's with the external PX-1 super duty external crossovers (to prevent melt downs). The amps are Anthem M1 mono blocks at 2000 watts per channel. As great at the Model T's are and they are great, a little help from subs really moved things to a whole new level.

I am running Three subs in the room; more is better. An EP-800v4 with "the switch", EP-500 and a Bryston Model T Sub with a v4 modified amp and of course the "the switch". One sub at each flank of the room and the EP-500 at the rear.

Allow your subs to do the heavy lifting for the low end and let the mains do what they do best.

Slim, LP targets is a terrific idea!

Hope you're enjoying your Model Ts, QS10s and Axiom subs.

Tex, I really don't mind you using vinyl as targets, just consider using Lawrence Welk

I use throwing axes on Lawrence. Knives are too kind.

Well, last week we reached the point of no return with the LFR 1100 Actives, literally, as my 30 day trial period is over. And I have no intention of sending these back. They have definitely found a home here. Although I have not had as much time with them as I would have liked, I have fallen in love with them. They will not make bad recordings sound better; they are incredibly neutral and accurate. But they will reward you in spades when listening to quality recordings. Incredible detail and clarity, and the bottom end has come around beautifully. I know that there is a lot of debate out there about speaker "burn in," but in this case these things definitely got better in the low end with use. They were incredible in the mids and highs right out of the box,

I recently saw a video with Andrew Jones from ELAC on this topic, and although he is not a big believer in speaker "burn in" (and neither is Ian, btw), Jones does believe that there is some improvement in the low end at the beginning of use as the "spider" moves around a bit and then settles in. This all happens at the start of use and afterwards things don't change much (for instance the 100 hours theory), but the woofers do need to loosen up a bit at first. I don't understand the physics of all this and whether or not it's true for all speakers, but I truly believe in this case, those first hours of use really brought the low end around on the LFR 1100 Actives. Maybe just a placebo effect for me, but the low end is definitely more dynamic and powerful to my ears now than at first. And that "fullness" that I felt was missing a bit is there now. Would I still want a subwoofer(s) for movies, probably. But I am getting everything I want for two channel music listening. I'll leave it up to those who are much more technically knowledgeable to get into the finer details of all this, but as far as I'm concerned, I am a happy camper!

You did good, Ian! And thanks so much for all of the support and assistance during the process. Axiom is an outstanding company! And the M80's that I bought all of those many years ago keep singing away beautifully in my dedicated theater along with the QS-8's, and 10's that were added later. :-) Now what to do with all of that cardboard?