Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo Which Power Source for M60ti? Newbie.

Both my Onk and Pioneer allow me to run the amps and pre-outs simultaneously. I don't know if the Outlaw functions the same way.

Are you still about 17 feet back? Are you running subs with your Yammy?

Yes, you can do that. Or this and done.

Pre:

https://www.minidsp.com/products/streaming-hd-series/shd

Amp:

QSC GXD8

Thanks FTD I’ll check those out, more researching. Love it.
Mojo, no subs, yet, but I want to augment the system with dual subs in stereo with proper left and right channels. Thinking 2x EP125 or EP 175. Not sure yet. I almost pulled the trigger on 2 Polk audio 108subs but resisted. ( 100$ each).

I still haven’t tried my alternate wall position yet. Once I get new speaker wire I’ll do that when I pull out the old wire. So, yes I’m still in the 17 feet back position, m60s are toed in ever so slightly and are sitting just out of corners 14.5 feet apart but close the walls. Without Pure Direct on it’s too boomy in corners. Pure Direct gives best performance and cleans it all up, clear and musical. And recording quality REALLY matters. I’ve found pre made playlists on Spotify of quality recordings and they really are good, I get good bass from those in Pure Direct. That’s where I found the Nils Lofgren the other day.

Ep125 and 175 won't cut it. For music, you need two 500s up front in your space. Not sure how you can feed each with their respective low level signals. I have dual DSPs with the LFRs to feed my 500s and the 800 for the .1 channel. For the M2OW, I use the Pioneer pre-outs to feed my upstairs dual subs. Never going back to a single sub again.

Does your pioneer have dual lfe out? Or are they daisy chained? Pluses or minuses of either feed set up?

I read, somewhere recently while researching stereo subs, that using high level input off my receivers a/b switch is a way to feed each sub. One off B to the left the other off B to right. Use the on-board amp in subs to match volume with my Yamaha / mains on A. M60s run full range with no pass filter then. The draw from the sub would minimal on the Yamaha. I think that would work.

I like the idea of letting the m60s run full range to their potential versus “ relieving” them of low frequency duty.

I could be wrong of course. I’ve never done it so it’s all hypothetical.

Also my space is big but not that big. I’ll try and sketch a layout with dimensions and attach it here. Maybe it’s bigger than I’m thinking compared to others space? Not sure. It’s an open 700 square feet including my kitchen that has a pass thru to living room and dining room. I’ll draw it up. You’ll see.

Oh yeah , was gonna say , by going each channel separate one left and one right it keeps it stereo specific to each channel for the subs versus the mono of all the frequencies or lfe going to both subs. Like adding a 10 inch low range woofer you your tower/array.

My Pioneer is a straight 2-channel receiver. No sub out. I am using its pre-outs to feed my subs. Left pre-out to left sub and right pre-out to right sub. I feed the M2OW off the Pioneer's built-in amp. 70W/channel into 4 Ohms, I sit 12 feet away and come nowhere close to maxing it out even at rocking SPLs.

Running speakers full range is not all it's cracked up to be. It really depends on the speakers, the room and how far away you sit. When I had the active LFRs in my 1900 cu.ft. living room, I ran them full range and it was magic. No other Axiom could do that except the M2; and the M2 wasn't magical down low but at least it wasn't offensive. All others interacted with my room real bad down low and had to be crossed over to a sub at around 80Hz. When I moved the actives into my 4200 cu.ft. main room, the magic down low was lost comparatively speaking. They were still far better than the M100. But that's where the twin 500s took over. Right at 40Hz.

You'd be surprised what smaller Axiom speakers can do. Anyone who can sit 12 feet or less to their speakers, is safe with M2s and one or two good subs. In fact, I've found for that distance, the M2 images better than larger speakers with more drivers. I used to tease TAM about his M2s with twin 800s and shame on me. I've discovered for myself he was right. The M2OW in my living room have changed my life.

Sending low frequencies to sealed subs is much better for a variety of reasons. Plan for this long term.

Watch and Subscribe to this guys. Incredible technical information and presentation in his videos.
HexiBase
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-AGcpEVUnQ

I recommended the mini DSP because it ticks your boxes and has Dirac. Dirac allows you to tailor the response of your system custom for your room, and does time alignment. It is NOT like other room EQ routines out there.

The GXD8 amp can be cycled out later to drive literally anything. It is great value for what it has on board. I am looking to hear one myself. Hiss can be a problem with pro amps. This one is supposedly very quiet.

Thought this might be the appropriate place to comment on the Axiom Transformer now that I've added it into my system and have been listening to it sporadically for about a week or so. I can hear way more detail now when listening to Tidal and Spotify via it's DAC. Really incredible. I haven't tried the optical via a cd transport yet but will try that soon. I've mostly listened to low to medium volumes. The oppurtunity to crank it up hasn't presented itself yet.

I've noticed that when using Tidal I can only achieve 24bit/44khz over the wireless. I think to acheieve the 24bit/192khz i need to be using the usb connection. On Spotify I get 16bit/44khz ( or so it says with in the Axiom App. Does Spotify play files that high of resolution? I kinda thought not but maybe im wrong?

Anyway the Axiom App is reasonable and im sure im not using it too it's full potential yet. I wish there was a way to re-order things when you search for them. IE Web Radio always comes up first and is usually a huge list, so i need to scroll way down to the bottom to get to the Artist list. I really like seeing the bit/hz count though as i move around the different files types. But again, it really comes down to the best recorded stuff and mastered stuff versus the highest bit rate and sample frequency.

Over all i'd say the Axiom Transformer is more than worth it. Its a great addition to my system without having to pony up big dollars for a whole new integrated to gain the modern functionality. I also like the idea that my reciever is remains analog only, how much that really matters i can't say but the concept makes sense to me. The Transformer also sets up for future upgrades in pre amp or outboard amps / seperates.

Tidal streams in 16/44.1 except for some MQA tracks in 24/96 with the more costly membership.

I suspect these MQA tracks are mastered with the same dynamic range as a 16 bit track. The only place where a listener can take full advantage of 16 bit dynamic range is in a noiseless environment like an anechoic chamber. And with a true 24 bit resolution, their cochleas would be bleeding.

Yes, the Transformer like other units, has a 24-bit A/D and DAC. But just because both process 24 bits doesn't mean you get a full 144dB dynamic range. At least 7 of those extra bits are padded with zeros. Noise is a killer.