Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Moving from 5.1 to 4.1

I know that Mojo has gotten rid of his center channel speaker with the move to LFR active. I don't have the active speakers but I do have LFR and I will say that my movie experience has improved with the removal of that center channel.

I am wondering how many have tried to see if they like it more without center (going phantom) over having an actual dedicated speaker.

I know that the LFR speakers have such a wide stage and enveloping sound from them that I really like. In a movie theater, I think that the front speakers are really wide. It gets hard because of the size of the theater room to really point to where the left center and right channels sit. They seem to act as a big area. You know that the left and right are to each side of you, but dialog and what most call the ambient front sounds that are sent to the center channel in your home theater setup seem to come from all around the front. This is where I find that my HT setup was lacking in that the center channel was VERY directional. it came as sort of a sore thumb in the L&R speakers were so wide in sound. With my QS8 surround speakers to the side, the side and rear sounds were nicely dispersed to feel non directional too.. but then you get that center channel that was so in your face front and center. Only front and center as if the sound was coming towards you from down a long hallway. It just sounded wrong com compared to every other speaker set. Remove the center and let the L&R do their thing in phantom mode and the directionality goes away and it sounds much more like an actual movie theater.

Now I will admit that I don't have the perfect room. I do have an Atmos capable pre-amp but haven't really wanted to try setting it up as such.

Before you posted this, I was going to write my experience with The Matrix. In the pill scene where Morpheus is sitting on the left and Neo on his right, I can clearly hear Morpheus left of center and Neo right of center.

I never had that kind of localization with the VP160 or any of the passives in phantom center mode.

Yes, it is much better to not have the center localized as before.

It works as long as every one has a good seat.
Stated another way if you don’t have a good image sitting on the left or right side of the couch you might need that center to anchor the dialog to the screen (rather then.the front speaker closest to you)

Agreed. In my case, sitting 25 degrees to the left or right is still good. No complaints from guests.

Hi Matt

Since you have an Atmos processor you might want to try turning “center spread” on and enabling the dolby surround upmixer. Even though you arent taking advantage of the height channels, the center spread function eliminates the issue you mention and sounds incredibly seamless.

Pans between R-C-L do not sound like point source speakers in a properly set up level matched system -even with bookshelf speakers. Try it with Dolby surround enabled. Impressive technology.

Edit: Just read you traded in already. Oh well. Onward ho with the M5s!

That is the beauty of the LFR speakers. As it really gives a wide sound stage that there isn't that exact spot that is great and move off it to the left or right you loose the effect. The DSP along with the rear firing drivers on the speaker gives it this sort of omni presence effect that you get great sound from multiple seating positions inside the room.

My experience says this "stereo everywhere" effect is very room-dependent and distance to MLP-dependent.

When I had the actives in my living room at 10' MLP, the center image collapsed when I moved my head to one side or the other. If I sat off to the left, it was so bad I could only really hear that left speaker. Not so with the M2OW. I can sit on the far left, 2.5 feet outside the boundary of the left speaker, and I still hear the center image pretty much in the center.

The actives in my basement at a 15 foot MLP are a different story. There is more of a "stereo everywhere" effect.

Frankly I didn't buy the actives for this attribute. Really all I care about is the MLP. However, a big benefit of perhaps this attribute is that I now have a more natural center presentation as discussed above. And my guests are OK with the center image when they sit 20 degrees off to either side. Beyond that 20 degrees, the center image is not as great.

All this of course is related to my rooms. Others could have a different experience.

The other consideration to think about...


I've only got two friends and very rare that either of them come over to watch a movie. So I don't give a F about what other people sitting in the room think. I have the best center seat inside the house and enjoy.

We had a TV with these miro energy satellite speakers and a horrible Pioneer AV stereo in the family room. The wife complained that they didn't look nice. The stereo was hard to clean under. The solution to the problem was it rip it all out. My wife and daughter are just as happy to watch the TV with sound coming just from it. So getting worked up about perfect sound and making sure everyone will have it is total bunk as most I am sure don't have the mental astuteness to know the difference.

It is a good question why women, on the whole, are not into sound reproduction the way men are. I don't have a theory.

Do I dare turn that statement around ... (but it's just too much of a temptation ...)

I don't give a F about what other people sitting in the room think. [So...]
-- I've only got two friends and
-- very rare that either of them come over to watch a movie