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Re: It's burning!!!
Mojo #436967 05/31/20 05:16 PM
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Is the protest response deemed unwarranted or unpopular in the US? Obviously the violence is bad and terrible, but is the underlying action seen as positive?

Re: It's burning!!!
Mojo #436969 05/31/20 05:21 PM
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It really is hard to get a clear impression of public opinion out of the US. All the news is hyper sensationalized and focuses on acute issues rather than any overall policy or reform trends.

Re: It's burning!!!
Mojo #436970 05/31/20 06:27 PM
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Ouch... that didn't go well.

I realize it's probably too late, but Craig I don't think Mojo wrote his initial post out of any feeling of superiority... we mostly avoid this kind of "piling on" by the professional protestors because we're too small and too cold to be interesting. On the rare occasion that something big happens here (eg the G-7 summit a few years ago) we have all the same problems.

TrevorM, my impression is that the protests themselves are regarded as reasonable and even necessary; the problem is that they get hijacked by smaller, more violent groups that are just looking for an excuse to riot and are happy to see the cities burn since they don't live there.

I don't believe the "80% of protestors are from out of state" stories but the arrest statistics (mostly white) suggest that the people starting fires and urging violence are not the same ones who initially gathered to protest.

Where it all gets blurry is that people who originally came out for a peaceful protest get caught up in the mob and become part of it even though that was the last thing they had in mind at the start. Mob psychology is pretty powerful, unfortunately.

Last edited by bridgman; 05/31/20 06:32 PM.

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Re: It's burning!!!
Mojo #436972 05/31/20 06:57 PM
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I personally try to avoid news just take the headlines with a grain of salt.
Here in the North our news is running with this at full pace. Sadly they are biased to what their owners want and scare tactics to keep the drones watching at the edge of their seats. Deliberately miss leading the masses is easier than a single person!!!

Hoping this topic is not enough for our most valuable knowledgeable board members to leave. It will pass the same as our current lock down will.

Glad your back Trevor.

Bodycount needs a new CopKiller track or the remaining NWA with F the Police remakes. Another good one from the time was Paris The Devil Made Me

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Re: It's burning!!!
craigsub #436976 05/31/20 07:50 PM
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Hi Craig,
I just wanted to note that this rioting is not unique to the USA, that is just where it is happening right now. And you can escape from it by going to Montana or Maine just as easily as PEI or northern Ontario. Bottom line; it is no different here. There was a huge protest in Toronto yesterday over exactly the same type of incident. A 29-year-old black woman died while the police were present in the home. No one knows the real story of this incident in Toronto yet, that is something for the courts to sort out later. But it was enough to incite a huge protest; it didn’t turn violent but these things can go either way. Just remember the burning and looting of Vancouver in 2011, and that was over a hockey game!


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Re: It's burning!!!
Mojo #436977 05/31/20 07:54 PM
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I generally avoid these conversations. They never end well. Emotion overrules rational thought and discussion, and conversation crumbles into insults. I found the opening post one of curiosity, and maybe a dash of baiting, but I did not find it insulting or from a position of moral superiority.

Protesting is a constitutionally protected rite. Rioting and looting, however, are not and should be dealt with immediately. I raised my hand and swore an oath to protect the constitution of the United States of America - even the right to burn the flag I love, despite my disgust towards that act of protected free speech. I did not serve to protect a thug that thinks he/she can rob me or my neighbors without punishment. Without law and order, anarchy prevails.

What's happening now is wrong. Extremist groups have exploited a terrible act of police brutality and turned this into an opportunity to divide this country during an election year. These "protests" are occurring in democratic cities too, coincidence? I think not. The media is not covering things fairly either. They are calling riots and looting - peaceful protests. They are lying. There is nothing peaceful about burning a building down, or throwing Molotov cocktails at police cars.

I have spent my entire adult life enjoying a unique position of middle ground. That's probably due to my study of philosophy, and thinking deeply about things. I vote for who I think will do the best job, not for a "party". Both liberals and conservatives have perspectives that deserve respect and thought. There must be a balance of both, or the entire system breaks down. George Washington warned against a two-party system in his farewell address. He was correct. We are seeing his predictions come true now.

When Trump was elected, the narrative was no longer an argument between liberal and conservative viewpoints, but about Trump; and if you hated him, or loved him. Middle ground no longer exists. The media and the political establishment has waged war on him, and are openly hostile and dishonest, or downright liers. He has bought much of that onto himself by his horrid choice of words and woeful lack of charisma that liberals view a critical characteristic their leaders must-have. Despite my agreement with most of his policy choices and direction he is taking the country, I dread hearing him talk or seeing some of his tweets. I get why liberals loath the guy. It's unfortunate they can't see past his shortcomings and take a more neutral posture towards policy and seek the truth verse be lead by the nose by the mindless group think mob that hates him so much.

Journalism is dead from what I can tell. It's all about ratings and pandering to an audience that will fund executive bonus checks. There was a time when I would watch some MSNBC, then FOX News to see both sides of an argument. Then I'd watch CNN to find middle ground. Now, I can't take a second of CNN or MSNBC. FOX has now become "middle ground" for me. I just ignore the talking heads. I am now right of center, no longer interested in being labeled a racist or bigot because I disagree with a liberal viewpoint. The pendulum has moved way too far left and needs to swing a bit to the right. Balance is needed. I only hope it doesn't go too far, now that the media is no longer interested in honest and fair reporting. They are supposed to be the ones who keep lunatics on both sides of an argument in check. Now they are active participants.

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Re: It's burning!!!
Mojo #436981 05/31/20 09:15 PM
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Fox is not an exactly neutral news organization ...

All I can ask it that you factcheck through at least one known to be neutral organization ...

factcheck.org

is a good one and seems to hold both sides accountable.

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Re: It's burning!!!
brendo #436983 05/31/20 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by brendo
Glad your back Trevor.

Still here. smile I wasn’t upset or anything.

Turns out this thread became pretty productive.

I respect the insightful comments and feel better for understanding right leaning feedback. I consider myself centrist or left leaning, but usually fall into Brendo’s camp of suspicious of the news in general.

Re: It's burning!!!
rrlev #436984 05/31/20 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by rrlev
Fox is not an exactly neutral news organization ...

All I can ask it that you factcheck through at least one known to be neutral organization ...

factcheck.org

is a good one and seems to hold both sides accountable.

Found Allsides.com today. Seems very good option as well so far.

Re: It's burning!!!
Mojo #436985 05/31/20 09:39 PM
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I don't take at face value anything reported by any news organization. We could debate whether they are puppets or evil. There is a bigger human trait at work though and that's cognitive biases.

What one sees is not necessarily reality. Even though a reporter can claim they are reporting what they see, what they see is most frequently not put into perspective. Reporters will tell you that is not their job. That is the job of analysts.

What analysts can we really "trust" to give us the full context?

Cognitive biases helped us survive this long at the expense of reasoning. We no longer need cognitive biases the way we once did. What we need now is stronger reasoning abilities. How many millennia will it take to get improved reasoning?


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