Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners HP Drivers vs Regular

Would it be fair to say that the standard Axiom drivers sound better than the HP drivers at lower listening levels? We all know the HP's kill it at the higher level. But what happens when the kids go to sleep, who would win that battle?

No audible difference. The HP drivers are more linear than the standard drivers at higher volume levels - particularly at lower frequencies.

copy that, thanks mojo!

That matches my understanding as well - the only thing you give up with HP drivers is cost and ability to use them in a typical 2-way speaker.

Blame it on coil inductance; larger coil diameter and more turns than the standard 6.5" woofer coil. Inductance increases as the square of both.

i'm lost. Axiom isn't putting tweeters on drivers, so why does it matter that they are 2 way only? I'm learning, so please educate me.

Bridgman was pointing out that Axiom's HP driver can't be used in a 2-way speaker like the M3. The HP driver is incapable of handling the mid-range like the standard 6.5" driver can. The reason it is incapable is, as I've described, due to the larger coil diameter and amount of wire. Both increase the inductance. The higher the inductance, the greater the resistance to higher frequencies like mids.

That larger coil diameter and more wire, along with a larger permanent magnet, beefier surround and spider and cast frame, allow the HP driver to reach lower, with less distortion and higher sound pressure.

The HP driver is therefore perfectly suited to 3-way speakers like the M5, M60, M80, M100, LFRs, 160, 180 and QS10. All those have at least one dedicated mid-woofer driver to handle the mid-range. Incidentally, those mid-woofers extend down to the upper mid-bass.

Damn Mojo, that is exactly the explanation I was hoping for. That all makes sense to me now.

Do drivers play a role in imaging? It seems like the audio that wraps around you is on the higher end. To a novice it seems like it's the tweeters job to wrap the sound around you, correct?

It's a good question. The simple answer is, the entire audible frequency range matters.

Above about 2 KHz, the ears use volume (amplitude) differences between the left and right channels to figure out imaging. Below about 700 Hz, they use phase differences. Between 700 Hz and 2 KHz, it's complicated.

It's actually a bit more complicated than that. The amount of reverberant (reflected) signal vs. direct signal determines image depth behind the plane of the speakers. The reflected signal is that which bounces off from the recording venue (or is added by the sound engineer). So when you hear a singer dead center at the front plane of the speakers, that's all direct sound which has been recorded equally in the left and right channels. If you hear drums behind the singer, that's due to reflections that are coherent with the direct sound coming from the singer. Your ears-brain system is built to figure spatial relationships like this out using amplitude and phase differences in the left and right channels.

When I say the entire audible frequency range matters, what I mean is that amplitudes (volumes) must be reproduced at the level which they were recorded for each frequency. This is called the frequency response and some call it the amplitude response. These are the curves that you see on the Axiom product pages. It's also important for this response to not change during quiet passages (microdynamics) and peaks (macrodynamics). If the system loses accuracy during whispers and peaks, there goes the image and soundstage.

You'll run across the words accuracy and linearity. Accuracy measures the degree to which the output from the system reflects the input. By output, I mean level and frequency. Linearity measures the degree to which accuracy is maintained across all frequencies and amplitudes (from very quiet to very loud).

The more accurate and linear a system is, the better the imaging and soundstage. System = the entire audio chain.

The reason why I'm asking is because I wanted to hear the difference between the new divers and the old ones. Using my M50 cabinets I swapped them out. When switching between the two speakers, you can really hear the older drivers fill the room with sound much better than the newer ones. I swapped speaker wires and speaker placement to make sure it wasn't a reflection or difference in cables.

What did you do exactly?

Did you put the HP drivers in the old M50 cabinet?

Yes and a new tweeter. Old cabinet, new drivers.

You can't do that. The HP driver does not have the frequency range the standard 6.5" driver has. I explained that above.

Also the cross-over for the new tweeter is likely different than the cross-over in your M50.

What new speakers did you receive?

The drivers were from the M5HPOWs. I've read you're explanations and I'm very happy to hear that there are good reasons as to why that experiment didn't go so well. It didn't make sense as the new drivers seemed much better, heavier stronger castings, they were bolted on (no self tapping screws), way more woofer excursion while playing, all aluminum woofer, and much beefier larger magnetics. Comparing the old driver to the new one is pretty neat, the new ones look incredibly better, like a comparing a rock to a polished stone. So I was surprised when my little experiment did't work out as I thought it would.

When you're spending well over 10K on speakers you need to know what you're buying! I get it, I know just enough to be dangerous, but the performance of the OW series on my particular walls caused concern. The EP600 & M50Ti's kept me listening.

What is the problem with the M5OW? Not enough bass? Not loud enough?

I was able to listen to the M80ow initially, as it was the first speaker to arrive. It's not a ported speaker and I was able to set it next to the M50 and compare. The M50 had significantly more imaging and of course better bass, which was expected. I was expecting the M80ow to have better imaging. That is what lead me to swapping drivers. The M5ows sound similar to the M80ows.

You absolutely cannot listen to an on-wall unless it is on the wall. The on-walls are designed to take advantage of the wall for acoustics. I nearly threw my M2OW away when I first got them because I fell into the same trap. Then I put them on the wall and the rest is history.

As for imaging, on-walls can soundstage and image better than bookshelves and floor-standers but they need to be positioned correctly with respect to your listening position. My M2OW are a shining example of that. Their imaging and soundstage is better than any speaker I've had in my living room.

The M80OW are indeed ported. The port is on the bottom. Just like every other on-wall.

That's interesting since you can't toe them in ... unless you mount them on a bracket which takes it away from the wall. Which hopefully is not too far away to reduce effect the mid/low response too much.

I was indeed very surprised as well. I never expected on-walls to be audiophile-friendly. They can be provided the fixed layout for them is favorable...like mine is.

When I did a quick test of the M3ow I sat them against the wall on top of another speaker with the ports up. Sounded great considering they had a hard surface directly below them. Didn't evaluate the imaging as my use case is to put these on FMBs and use as tops. I figured that I would be able to get the images as they were amiable ... I should try them on FMBs to see if they still sound the same ... perhaps tonight ... I also need to check out the ADA1000 it's been just sitting there waiting for me to unwrap it.

More stuff to do ... currently running new ethernet cables for all the video/audio stuff ... the electricians messed most of it up by running some wires to where the audio/video router was going to be and some to one of my control hubs (i.e. the wrong place) ... good thing I put in conduit everywhere ... it's actually not too bad as I redesign my ethernet/video/audio distribution to use a managed switch at the control hub location which is going to work out better and be more secure.

I put my M2OW on top of my M5s which were on stands and 3 feet away from the front wall. The M2OW sounded like garbage. I called Deb to tell her to take that crap back. She happened to be in Ian's office when she took the call and I ended up chatting with Ian for 2 hours. LOL!

At the end of the call, which by the way included 3 minutes of M2OW discussion, I decided to try them on the wall on either side of my bow window in my living room. After doing that, I really felt bad for telling Deb and Ian they sounded like garbage. They are like magic on the wall like that.

Well that's the problem with evaluating speakers ... so much depends on factors like setup, room, system, and source material. It's easy to get something wrong ... I've scratched my head more then once by starting an evaluation of a speaker without reseting the receivers audacity settings.

Audacity setting to the maximum!

I embrace veracity and abhor mendacity and therefore in the interest of eliminating opacity I declare audacity without sagacity rarely leads to perspicacity and often to pugnacity.

Very impressive tenacity!

The M80ow's I received were not ported and did not sound well no matter where you placed them. As an Axiom alum I was so pumped to receive these speakers. I realize I have the worst listening space, fire place, sliding glass door etc. but when comparing to the old M50s, in the same space... the 50s are significantly better. No match, my 6 year old can hear the difference. You think those M80s should of been ported? If it wasn't for the EP600 I would be returning everything.

I dont think the speakers are the issue.

On wall speakers need proper placement and are dependant upon loading them against a boundary as Mojo has mentioned.

Your room doesnt appear to allow proper setup as your picture shows. I would highly recommend drawing out your room on a piece of paper and google ITU Multichannel setup.

Think about turning your room to best fit the template.

If your room is not capable of a standard setup in terms of placement it is likely best to choose another room.

https://www.itu.int/dms_pub/itu-r/opb/rep/R-REP-BS.2159-8-2019-PDF-E.pdf

People trend towards on walls or in walls assuming they can make a tricky layout more flexible. That is not the case.

Trevor, that is such a great reference. You know what I'll be reading today...LOL! Thanks for posting the link. Love the 22.2 architecture but I think it needs 20 more subs for a more balanced 22.22 sound. I also think they ought to repeat all psychoacoustic experiments with active LFRs. They may be able to cut speaker quantities in half.

Rebulx, can you confirm there are no ports on the top or bottom sides? My M2OW have two ports on the bottom.

Can you explain what you mean by the M50s are significantly better?

I just noticed the M80OW are sealed. No ports. Sorry about misleading you. The M60s are sealed as well.

The smaller models consisting of the M5, M3, M2 are all ported.

Strangely, the M0 were also sealed.

Sealed is cool. Less distorted bass.

You might be right, but I need speakers for my room, not buying a new room for my speakers.
There is a 3/8" gap between the wall and the speakers, I've hung the M5ow's on another wall in another room, and they sound the same, nothing like any bookshelf or floor standing axiom speaker i've ever heard. The major difference is they sound very linear... shooting the sound at you, they do not fill the room with sound, the sound does not wrap around you like the other axioms. The larger drivers gets very little play, little woofer movement at higher listening levels, I would imagine that the crossover is designed that way due to the smaller cabinet. I didn't expect below 80hz, but I did expect clear imaging. I'm thinking I should of gotten the QS-10s instead of M5ows. Perhaps they have a better bass response and imaging, that would perform better in my listening environment.

Rebulx, there's a problem here that needs to be solved. None of my v4 are as you describe. They are more room-filling and satisfying than v2. All my drivers pump like crazy!

Can you confirm you have them playing full range? By that I mean not crossed over to a sub.

Your room is tiny for any of those speakers. Once this is solved, you and your lady will be losing your balance given the sound pressure.

I've played around with the settings but have them set to an 80hz cross over as prescribed. Are you recommending they are set to "Large"?

Set them to large for now so that we can see if we can get the drivers moving.

Also check polarity to make sure + is + and - is -. If polarity is wrong, bass will definitely be impacted.

If the yammy has a 4 or 6 ohm setting, set to 6 ohm.

I've been doing manual setups lately and skipping any auto room correction for the HT. If doing two channel I hit the "direct", "pure", or what ever the 2 channel "don't modify the input" button is ... I always set my speakers to large if not using sub. If using a sub then I allow the receiver to do the cross-over (setting the subs x-over out of the way ... usually 150 hz) ... then decide if large or small is appropriate for the system (i.e. large floor standing speakers like the M80 or M100 are set to large, an M22 or M3 to small. The exception on large floor standing is if the amp is marginal, like most receivers, I may set them to small and let the Sub do the low-end heavy lifting)

That sounds like a practical way to do it.

I've found the actives are the only Axiom I've been able to play full range without Audyssey correction. Even in my largish 4200 cu ft room. Playing them full range gives me even more of the kind of mid-bass I like.

So, first a BIG thank you for all the help mojo, and for the pointers from rrlev. Appreciate the assistance in getting things setup. I've been playing with lots of settings. I set the M5ow's back to large and went to 6 ohms but no improvement. I just have bad walls I guess, I'm putting these on the beam/frame between the kitchen and living room, as seen in previous posts. It doesn't seem to play well in that setting. Thats the destination for those speakers so it really doesn't matter if it sounds amazing on solid walls.

Are the QS series as dependent on good walls?

The long lost, very damaged, M80ow arrived today, a hold up in customs and over two weeks ship time and unfortunately my 15 year old son signed for it. Life lesson learned. Do not accept severally damaged packages!

It's kind of funny they even tried to deliver. The box won't even stand up on it's own now. It's beaten to hell.

Axiom will make any shipper problems right if you contact them.

Is the M5 woofer moving at all? I am wondering if your yammy is having problems powering it. It's a 4 Ohm load down low. The M50 is an easy load. How long is your wire run and what gauge?

One of my QS10s sounds boss and is mounted as shown.

First and foremost... I so miss guitar hero mojo! what a great game!!! lol

It moves some, just enough to let you know it's getting power. Ian said I needed to cross over at 80hz. I don't think the on walls are designed to handle any bass. Which makes senes considering the cab size. I wasn't expecting a thumper.

Thinking about my setup and speaker placement.... Does the 10 go lower than the 5? How is the imaging compared to the 5? Are your 5's on walls? Man I miss guitar hero!

I ODd on guitar hero about a month back. I can never be as good as my son no matter how hard I try.

I don't know man. I get great bass from my M2OW but they are in a 1900 cu ft room and they are ported. I don't have any other OW other than the M2OW and QS10 so I can't tell you how the M5OW are.

The M5 bookshelves go lower than the QS10. Maybe you need the bookshelves on FMBs. Before you go that way, chat with Ian. I still think there's some other problem. Judging by my M2OW, your M5OW, which are also ported, ought to be giving you some good bass.

lol yeah the kids have us beat in that area!

I was advised not to expect anything below 80hz and that a good sub would provide the sound in that range.

I've attached the M5HPOW specs below. One thing I find strange is they're spec'd to be 8 Ohms. I don't know how that's possible given the use of the HP driver.

Note they are spec'd to 55Hz and below. I suppose though that's with some chunk of wall behind them.

It may be good to but them up against a wall and see how they play. If you can't get bass out of them in that configuration, then we know something else is wrong. Maybe not enough current from your amp. After all, 94% of musical power content is bass.

Mojo, I've just starting messing around with my parametric EQ, which on my receiver allows me to independently control the EQ on each speaker. I went to extremes to hear the difference and i'm now optimistic. In pure mode or/flat the on walls don't sound like they are supposed to but after playing around with the EQ i can start to hear a big improvement. Do you have recommend settings or is that pretty dependent on the reflection/room.

here is a pic of what i'm working with:

I think it's more dependent on what you enjoy.

Your ears have gotten used to the M50 sound. The M50 and M3 sound is very different from all other Axioms due to the lack of a dedicated mid-woofer. You *may* be hearing "good" sound but not really know it.

What do you think you have too little or too much of?

That could be, but I've had several friends over to listen and they agree something wasn't right. I've tweaked them with the EQ to sound much better but nothing below 80hz. They are set to large and I have a 6db gain below 80hz.

I'm learning as I go with the EQ, making it sound better little by little. The speakers are listenable now, before they were uncomfortable to play. One of my buddies said it sounded like the mids were trying to play all the highs, the imaging and highs are significantly better now. Night and day difference.

Can you see your 6" woofers moving when listening to your QS10s?

I can definitely see all my woofers, on every Axiom, moving when I listen loud or there's a dynamic scene. Also the mid-woofers.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-NnWo61RUvVFabKlDj0z_gd7jyYuQFpt/view?usp=drivesdk

Something is wrong! Either your speakers are busted or the yammy's output voltage is collapsing.

I got an idea. Try just a single channel.

lol, not going to lie, that video was kind of sexy! Can you PLEASE send a video like that of your QS10?

I've been playing with EQ enough tonight to where I have an awesome sound stage. My old Axioms have never played so well. I really don't think it's a power issue. I've lowered the DB on all the other speakers and adjusted the EQ to direct more to the lower frequencies, still no decent woofer movement.

I'll try to get a video together later today.

Decent driver movement only comes with a lot of power. You need 100 Watts to see any movement. Each of those HP drivers can take 260 or so continuous Watts and over 1000 Watts peak.

Have you read the M5HPOW review on the product page? The reviewer says he's amazed with their bass.

You may be lacking mid-bass. If you have an EQ setting around 70 Hz, boost at that frequency and set the Q to 2.3. That will give you a nice slam between 55 Hz and 85 Hz. If you do that, don't boost above or below 70 Hz because that will negate the mid-bass boost.

If you're happier with that, you may also want to try boosting the 600 with EQ and the rear switch. Experiment with the speakers crossed to the 600 and also playing wide open.

In order to shrink my HT footprint I recently replaced a full size VP 180 with the same model in an "on-wall" version previously commenting how close a match it was to the original so I decided to carry it one step further ordering a pair of "on-wall" M5s to replace my 10 yr old V2 M80 floor standers. In addition to being the only speaker, regardless of size, in the on-wall line-up to have the HP woofer as standard equipment and, I gather to accomodate the bigger magnet, the M5 being three-quarters of an inch deeper(4 and three quarter inches). compared to 4 inches deep, none of the others can even offer the HP speaker as an option.

I was just curious as to this design/model choice and IF it is a case of the HP version requiring the "box" to best function, without giving away any trade secrets, perhaps Ian can chime in and why the decision on only the M5 and why does it work in the "on-wall" version where there is obviously virtually no air movement whatsoever?

Casey01, Axiom always wanted to build a bookshelf 3-way that could rival a floor-stander. That however required a woofer that could provide more linear bass than the standard woofer. Otherwise, Axiom would have to use two standard woofers to get the same linearity as the HP driver and that wouldn't go over very well for a bookshelf. When the HP driver came along, so did the bookshelf. By that time, Axiom also had an improved mid-woofer, tweeter and cross-over (more refined Family of Curves) so it all came together very nicely into the M5HP.

The M5OW is ported so there is some air movement. The HP driver is the only way Axiom could have offered a 3-way OW that rivals the M5 bookshelf.

Axiom doesn't offer the HP driver for other on-walls likely because it considers that market is well-served by the linearity of the regular woofer - particularly given the twin use of that woofer.

Thx for that, very interesting and once I take delivery and integrate the M5s into the front LCR soundstage along with a recently purchased on-wall VP180, I will be looking forward to how it all fits together. In any case, I will have saved a significant amount of floor space under my monitor. Just wondering though, in looking at both the front and rear picture of the M5OW on the website, I see no evidence of any porting. unless, of course, the port is on the bottom which you can't see in the pictures.

I have the M2OW. They have two vortex ports on the bottom. The M5OW likely have those also because they are spec'd as reflex/vortex.

I love the M2OW! See my two reviews at the link below.

https://www.axiomaudio.com/m2-on-wall-speaker

The M5 bookshelves are leaps and bounds better than my old M80v2 - in every way. And they image and soundstage better than M100s in my rooms. I hope your M5OW are as good.

Mojo, you said "You may be lacking mid-bass. If you have an EQ setting around 70 Hz, boost at that frequency and set the Q to 2.3. That will give you a nice slam between 55 Hz and 85 Hz. If you do that, don't boost above or below 70 Hz because that will negate the mid-bass boost."

I want to clarify, bump the 70hz with a 2.3 Q and leave everything else flat?

Where do you recommend starting to play with the 600? What frequency? Do you know of a good song or something to listen too to experiment with for the sub?

Looking forward to your QS10 video.

Casey, my 5ow's came ported. They are on the bottom, The 80ow's are not ported.

Leave the 600 out of it for now. Focus on getting happy with the M5OW.

Start with 70Hz. Maybe 60 or 50 or 80 will work better in your room but 70 is a good start.

Here's a mid-bass tune that will melt all your drivers if you have the power...LOL!

https://open.spotify.com/track/7FE3yVQkgwifYMAxUko7rO?si=RHquSGADQmaAIKrau_WA5g

lol thats a great track! Excellent mids and fun imaging, I thought I was in a rave, lol!

QS10 Video Video Video!!!

It's coming. I've got to get my friends to leave the house because I only have one set of ear muffs and don't want them to go deaf. LOL!

In the meantime, enjoy these:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-Z0f_2UGzdEPuUpnIo8U4XUIUBD-xXHv/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dbcSBrC2N433hb0nkj3vYxa3Bf-vxx6Z/view?usp=drivesdk

lol love your videos mojo. I want to play that game!!! on walls just don't work for me, plus fedex beats my packages up pretty well, so mine are probably just damaged. I'm thinking....

Current state of mind….
Temporally stay with my old M50tis and VP150.
upgrade to an ADA1000 5 channel
QS8’s mid way in living room or QS4s
Four M3 books wrapped around the beam between my kitchen and living room.  Or perhaps QS10’s on the beam.   That would look better.  But concerned about lower frequency performance.
 
Also thinking about M2ows above TV for presences speakers/Atmos, or QS4s?

Stay away from QS4 and QS8.

The M3 sounds very similar to the M50. M5 bookshelves will give you deeper and more linear bass, clear mids and better lower highs.

I really think you ought to try M60s up front instead of M50s. You'll get tons of good bottom end and wonderful mids and highs to boot. They'll work well with your old receiver. M60s vs. M50s is a better upgrade than an ADA-1000.

The QS10 has great low end with it's HP woofer. If you plan on ATMOS skip it and go with the M3s. As Dolby recommends all monopole speakers for Atmos.

The M60 would likely be your best bet, the extra drivers will give you a lot more performance. Then get an ADA if you really need more oomph.

But start with your center first the 150 isn't enough for newer sound tracks. There's so much content in the center now that a 160 would be the best first option, plus the 160 also has very good Bass capabilities and dispersion. Ultimately you may find that to be enough of an upgrade to hold you over for longer.

Right, Brendo. That 150 has to go. But the M60s may not require a centre.

HP 60's or regular? I see the cabinet is also a little larger on the 60s now compared to the 50's. Mine measures 13", the 60's say 15". You have to wonder what the larger cabinet does to the sound. I've seen a lot of high end floor standers that have 12-14" depth and sound amazing.

You have the 600 to give you linear lows so you don't need HP drivers for down there. However, the HP drivers would be very handy for very linear 55 Hz to 85 Hz response which is where the mid-bass lives.

The larger cabinet allows the 60s to reach 14Hz lower than the 50s.

Rebulx, play this loud and watch your house come apart...LOL!

https://open.spotify.com/track/0u5gVZkHPm9AGLGpwrBNtB?si=L4zGqKNYTuKKU677N3cd1Q

I started playing it and had to stop!!! Kids are sleeping mojo, you can't play that game this late! I'll listen more tomorrow, lol!

Hey, if you or anyone else is reading this, would you please be so kind, look at the images of my listening space. I want to accomplish two things, amazing sound while cooking in the kitchen, and an excellent home theater experience. I love it when the sound wraps around you during a great movie. So I've figured out what doesn't work well in my listening space, tell me what I need! Don't say actives as they won't fit. I can't pull them 6" away from the wall.

btw, me and the wife watched the original Jurassic Park when we got the EP600 last week and it was a totally new experience. We've been talking about it for days.

how far back do regular or high powered floor standing speakers need to be from the rear wall?

The distance from the front wall (the wall behind them) affects bass performance and soundstage depth. If you have to slam them against the wall, you might have to use port plugs. And if you slam the against the wall, you will have a 2-D rather than 3-D soundstage.

Your kitchen should not be a problem. The M2OW should be more than adequate and if you want to play louder and deeper, the M5OW will give you that plus cleaner mids and highs to boot. You always have the 600 to back them up. If you really like the M50 sound, get M3OW.

Your living room set-up is very non-ideal as you already know. Given your listening distance and speaker separation, the imaging and soundstage is virtually non-existent. LFRs won't help. Sure, they'll go loud and clean. You may actually be able to get better imaging and soundstage with M2 or M5 OW or bookshelves.

If you are enjoying your M50s, I think you should just stick with them and put the money into side surrounds and kitchen M2, M3 or M5. If you can ever make the front of your room "better", then I'd say look beyond the M50s.

If you've had enough of the M50s and feel you just have to upgrade them, the M60s will give you better everything. But that "better" will sound very different compared to the M50. More accurate, precise, and more detailed. Some don't like that and want sound to be "mellow".

Very well said mojo, expectations are important and after hearing the M80 on walls I do appreciate floor standing speakers as the cabinet makes a HUGE difference in sound. I've sent Ian my room pics and he's going to pick the best speakers for my setup. After spending some time with my M5ow's... I know the M2&M3s on wall speakers are great units. What i've learned is the 6" driver on the "on walls" just need great walls to push any lower frequencies. I put them on beams, so it didn't work. They never had a chance.

Rebulx, happy listening man. I'll post my QS10 pounding it out tomorrow.

I know enough about you by now to intuit that you won't rest until your bones are being rocked by active LFRs flanked by EP600s in a geometrically-correct topology. When that day comes, you will finally find audio peace.

Yup, your right about that! lol But I must say, the journey is fun, as I continue to learn more and more. You don't know what you don't know, and each day I realize how much I don't know. lol... I'm starting to learn how to use a mic and get my own data to really dial things in.

If you have an ipad I would highly recommend using Audiotools by Studio Six digital.

No external mic or interface needed (but optional and better for high frequency accuracy).

If you buy the extra plugin for transfer function you can do some pretty clever things.

Another optional plugin is Smaart. Industry standard.

Comes standard with RTA, FFT and RT60 measurement tools. Extremely useful.

I tried REW after using this. Nah!

Rebulx, have you tried mounting the M5OW in the kitchen above your stove? What's that like? Enough bass?

Here's the QS10HPv4 being driven unmercifully. The distortion is from my phone's mic.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Tjex4iIfeQlyNnQSyz4Du5Xpf4Q4H0JQ/view?usp=drivesdk

Trevor, why no love for REW?

Love that video mojo, I was wondering if that was possible, what amp were you using?

ADA-1000-2. 256W peaks reaching about 105dBC at my listening position. They were playing full range...just the way I like them.

Good to know. Takes some power to make them move. But boy do they dance!!! Excellent video, one for the archives.

They can gobble up the power from the ADA-1500. Unlike the M5HP, when they suck up that much power they're still quite linear. Must be the sealed design.

I received my M5HPOW today and I must admit, in the relatively short amount of time I have had to do some critical listening, they sure sound quite a bit different from my old V2 M80s which have been reassigned to the archives. I cranked them up for a short span and they had little problem handling it.

My only issue(if it is one)is that because they are on the wall along with my VP180OW which is under the television in an LCR configuration. because I use my system almost exclusively for video, the M5s are located quite a bit above my listening position creating the situation whereby it goes against the conventional wisdom that the LCR tweeters should be lined up as closely as possible. Of course, in this set-up, it is impossible. I will be putting it all through its paces this evening with a movie on my player to hear how it all sounds. I guess there must be something in the design that negates that conventional wisdom.

One thing for sure, it is nice to have the extra floor space.

Awesome Casey, Glad to hear you're enjoying them. I can attest that they can play loud, I bet they sound great with a decent wall behind them. I recommend using your parametric EQ on your receiver (if you have that option) to dial them in. I can tell you that made all the difference in the world on mine, but I have a terrible listening environment.


Do you have any pics? Use post https://postimages.org/

Casey01, I'm looking forward to hearing more of your impressions.

I guess there would would be TWO differences I noticed almost immediately. First, in comparison to the M80s,the M5s are are about 4 db less sensitive which is pretty much in line with the listed specs and, of course, required volume balancing, no big deal. Secondly, and probably the most obvious, with the M5s now assuming the L/R roll mounted about 5 feet off the floor on each side of my monitor(LG 77" Oled), the soundstage is considerably elevated and more "in your face". I was a little concerned because the tweeters would be noticeably above the listening position there would be a loss in detail. I don't know how Axiom did it, but, so far my concern is unwarranted. Another thing I noticed when I first listened to the VP180OW when I received it a few weeks ago ago, it and now and the M5s don't seem to be affected as much by objects and room boundaries immediately around them and are, as you already mentioned, more linear.

I still haven't had a chance yet to watch a movie at higher volumes, but, I am sure that will be a pleasurable experience. As I said in a previous post, now that my LCR front soundstage is all OW, it looks like I didn't need the big boxes after all.

How Axiom did it was by carefully designing for a gradual and minimal phase shift between the mid-woofer and the tweeter at the 2KHz cross-over.

I was as surprised as you about the OW. The M2OW soundstage better than the M5HP bookshelves in my living room. Imaging of the M5HP bookshelves is better (higher resolution) though. I anticipate the M5HPOW are the same in that regard and may offer the same or better soundstage than the M2OW.

I find the soundstage of all v4 bookshelf models is better when the tweeter is lower than the ears. The speakers simply disappear in this configuration and I can "hear" the soundstage behind them. It's almost as if they are projecting the sound behind them. The on-walls are a little different in this regard. The best way I can describe it, whatever they can't project behind them, they project to the sides. The effect is a huge soundstage to the boundaries of my room.

Just a preference thing. Audio equipment doesnt always mean hdmi.

Honestly, it was much easier to quickly measure and tune with test discs or the onboard tones or pink noise generator with Audiotools. Measuring phase was a gamechanger with subwoofer integration. I dont think REW can measure phase properly with an external mic preamp. Maybe usb? Dunno.

Audiotools is ready to go out of the gate with very dependable results. REW I found was great, but definitely very clunky to set up for a mobile user in different rooms and not a lot of time. The laptop reliance was a deal breaker with all the drivers and other windows drivers in the process. I am not patient with software that gets in its own way or needs a care and feeding manual. Lol.

I was able to walk someone through the install, hookup and use over facetime in NZ with Audiotools. Pretty sweet. Super easy, powerful and intuitive. I used to think apps were kinda flakey or gimmicky. Not this one for sure. Pro grade.

I hear yeah Trevor, REW requires 2-3 hours of youtube tutorials to figure out how to do a basic room diag. I will check out Audio Tools. I hear yeah, REW looks like a windows 95' program, but sometimes those can be the best. Looking forward to trying out audiotools, thanks for the recommend. I'll use both and let you know what I find. Back to my REW schooling! lol

While you boys screw around with nerdy tools, I am going paddleboarding. Yaaaahoooooooo!

Love to see that pic... Mojo on a paddle board!!! Yaaaahoooo! - that's with love mojo!

I'd post them but I'd get kicked off the boards. I was wearing my lime mankini which shows off too much manly 'nad mass.

What a great day it was on the lake with my limey friend of 43 years! We even got to ride the wakes of obliging boaters.