Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater M100s?

They "appeared" which is why I'm going to tinker with the toe-in and maybe even the positioning of the speakers. I'm going to try to move the 100s closer to the side walls and see how it affects the sound.

When those damned monoliths disappeared, you should have left them alone. Now you're gonna pull your hair out trying to replicate what you had. I did the same thing. I had M5s, 12 feet apart which disappeared at 14 feet MLP with no toe-in and no fuss. But did I leave well enough alone? Noooooooooo! I had to do better. Enter the M100s which no doubt were more dynamic, realistic-sounding, blah, blah, blah but got in the way of themselves. I hope you can fix it. If not, there's always active LFRs.

The levels dropped 3db on the fronts and center and 4db on the surrounds.

This should help you understand why the ADA made your system sound fuller pre-calibration at -20 compared to running off the Denon. The gain of the ADA is about 3dB greater than the gain of your Denon's amplifier. Stated another way, when you dialed -20 pre-calibration, you were really listening at -17.

Yeah that makes sense. I did get to move the speakers around some and I was able to get the sound not to sound so direct which makes me think I can still find a sweet spot and have them disappear again. Trying to move them around between 22º and 30º with varying distances from the front wall.

With regards to the m5s, right now they are about a foot behind the MLP firing straight across. Would it be worth it to wedge the back corner to have them firing more towards the MLP or would it make much difference?

The v4 mid-woofers and tweeters have very good off-axis response. You won't hear much difference for a movie surround application, and may actually end up reducing the bass response. The best soundstage and imaging performance I had with my M5s as fronts was with no toe-in.

Your M100s may never disappear again because you've become a critical listener.

BTW, if you really want to hear a disappearing act, throw a couple of M2 bookshelves in your cart next time you're shopping. Put them up against the M100 and see what you think.

Finally got them to disappear again. They moved closer to the outside walls and out further into the room from the front wall. I also had to reduce the toe-in but the sound is now so enveloping. I re-ran audyssey after each adjustment as well to compensate for the difference in distance. FCR are all within .1 feet of each other. The left and right are at 30º from MLP before the addition of the amp they were closer to 22º. I really had a chance to sit down and listen to a wide array of music and the sound was amazing. Pink Floyd "dogs" is still my go to song and has really taken on new life since I switched from the Paradigms and really dialed in the Axioms. Soundproofing the ceiling and building the enclosures for the in-ceiling speakers starts soon. I'm letting the insulation guy take care of the overhead stuff so I don't have to breathe in that stuff. In the meantime I'm getting speaker wire and electrical ran for multiple layouts and any additional speakers we may want to add down the road.

That's terrific! I am very happy for you. I for one wonder how adding the ADA changed the radiation pattern for the M100s. I'd have to think about why you had to move them closer to the side walls, further in to your room and at a wider angle. Perhaps moving them into the room suggests the bass response has increased which would certainly make sense at higher volumes.

It wasn't a huge difference coming out further into the room, about 8" from the previous spot, but they went about 3 ft closer to the side walls on each side. I would assume bass response but at the current positioning they are a lot more in line with the "golden triangle" although not exact.

This is all very interesting. Very, very interesting indeed! When I powered my M5s from the ADA-1000 and then the ADA-1500, I did not have to move them relative to when I powered them from my Onk. The soundstage and imaging was the same between ADA and Onk. The only difference was the SPL that could be coaxed out - particularly with the 1500. I should point out that I always had the back of the M5s 3 feet away from the front wall. They were also 5 feet from the sides.

The difference between the M5 and M100 is of course stark. The radiation pattern from the M100 must be absolutely huge and of a significantly different geometry than the M5 - particularly up to maybe 600Hz. The Denon likely hampered the radiation pattern on the low end of the range particularly at higher volumes. Add the 1500 and BOOM! - the pattern expanded.

I would be very interested in hearing from Axiom about this. I may have it all wrong but that is my theory. What a marketing story that would be for their ADAs if they could prove this through charts and graphs.

Incidentally, all other Axioms I have tried were positioned like the M5s. The only thing I had to change between M2/M3/M5/M50 and M80/M100/active LFR1100 was the toe-in. The smaller speakers were not toed in at all.