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Re: New vs Old - Tweeters
Rebulx #439162 10/17/20 05:49 PM
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Thanks for clarifying. I better read carefully from now on.

More drivers= shared load of high voltage for high spl making less distortion. Makes sense.

More drivers = more challenging to integrate into room / achieve holographic image bc of trying to “ time “ all drivers accurately? Or too many drivers in smaller space creating room nodes etc? Or both?


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Re: New vs Old - Tweeters
Mojo #439164 10/17/20 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Mojo
Loud and clean = M100s

Louder and cleaner = active LFR1100s smile

LFR1100 actives in this house would be too much as would m100 I think. I’ll create a space for those one day with subs etc.


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Re: New vs Old - Tweeters
Kodiak #439165 10/17/20 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Kodiak
Thanks for clarifying. I better read carefully from now on.

More drivers= shared load of high voltage for high spl making less distortion. Makes sense.

More drivers = more challenging to integrate into room / achieve holographic image bc of trying to “ time “ all drivers accurately? Or too many drivers in smaller space creating room nodes etc? Or both?

The simple question is, why would you choose that?.....an m60v4 be more linear than an m80v4?

Edit; What’s the definition of audio linearity? Less distortion? Maybe I’m confused by a terminology misunderstanding?

Last edited by Kodiak; 10/17/20 05:59 PM.

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Re: New vs Old - Tweeters
Rebulx #439167 10/17/20 06:16 PM
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Yes and yes. You'll be helping Andrew in no time. smile

Also, the more drivers a speaker has, the larger its cabinet, unless it's open. The cabinet interacts with the acoustic radiation inside the room. The smaller it is, the more of a point source it becomes and the less it interferes with the room. Also the smaller it is, the less it makes noise of its own which is an absolute nightmare to resolve unless you can make use of digital active filtering a la active LFR1100s.

But even the active LFR1100s are not perfect in that regard. They are oh so darned close. Why oh why Ian did you not add two more mids and two more tweets per speaker? What's 4 more amp channels when we already need 10? smile


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Re: New vs Old - Tweeters
Kodiak #439168 10/17/20 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Kodiak
Originally Posted by Kodiak
Thanks for clarifying. I better read carefully from now on.

More drivers= shared load of high voltage for high spl making less distortion. Makes sense.

More drivers = more challenging to integrate into room / achieve holographic image bc of trying to “ time “ all drivers accurately? Or too many drivers in smaller space creating room nodes etc? Or both?

The simple question is, why would you choose that?.....an m60v4 be more linear than an m80v4?

Edit; What’s the definition of audio linearity? Less distortion? Maybe I’m confused by a terminology misunderstanding?

Look at the M2 vs. M3 amplitude/frequency response graph. Which is more linear? Which one do you think goes "boom" in my living room? See that little bump around 80Hz on the M2? It sounds so sweet in my living room.

https://www.axiomaudio.com/pub/media/catalog/product/m/2/m2_freq_1.gif

https://www.axiomaudio.com/pub/media/catalog/product/m/3/m3_freq.gif

Look at the M60 vs M80. Yeah, the M80's "got more bass" but which is more linear? Unless you need the higher SPL of the M80, the M60 is hands-down the better speaker.

https://www.axiomaudio.com/pub/media/catalog/product/m/6/m60_freq.gif

https://www.axiomaudio.com/pub/media/catalog/product/m/8/m80_freq.gif

Now look at M80 vs. M100. I can tell you right now which bass sounds better in a room.

https://www.axiomaudio.com/pub/media/catalog/product/m/8/m80_freq.gif

https://www.axiomaudio.com/pub/media/catalog/product/m/1/m100_freq_graph.gif

Now LFR1100 vs. active LFR1100.

https://www.axiomaudio.com/pub/media/catalog/product/l/f/lfr1100-sp-lw.jpg

https://www.axiomaudio.com/pub/media/catalog/product/l/f/lfr1100_active_graph_1.jpg

Those last curves, that's what I paid for. When I saw those curves, I knew I had to have it!


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Re: New vs Old - Tweeters
Mojo #439169 10/17/20 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Mojo
Yes and yes. You'll be helping Andrew in no time. smile

Ha ha ha!! nice. Well good, i've got some great ideas for him.
Yeah, ummmmm no. I don't think he needs the kind of help I have to offer!

Sounds like a constant give and take battle. More drivers for spl sharing but bigger cabinet with potential more resonances. So build a strong cabinet with bracing, price and cost go up. And on and on it goes.


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Re: New vs Old - Tweeters
Rebulx #439172 10/17/20 06:33 PM
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Even if you build a completely inert cabinet, that inert cabinet still interacts with the energy off the room boundaries. Now you have a completely inert cabinet that still acts as an acoustical shadow.


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Re: New vs Old - Tweeters
Rebulx #439173 10/17/20 06:48 PM
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I upgraded from M60V4 to M80V4 a couple years ago.

Mojo has a ton of useful information, and I do appreciate his opinion, but he ain't always "right". My M80's are a superior sounding speaker than the M60's they replaced. And neither are HP's...... Just saying....... Take advice with a grain of salt and consider other points of view.

Re: New vs Old - Tweeters
Rebulx #439174 10/17/20 07:58 PM
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Hey Michael thanks for chiming in.

Why did you decide to upgrade from m60v4 to m80v4?

Why did you choose to not get the HP version?

What differences are you hearing?

What size and type of space are you in?

I’ve always considered the m80 as the flagship speaker from axiom. I bought these m60 ti for cheapish on refurb just to try out axiom. Loving em.

It looks like you have lots of posts so I’m guessing you’ve gone thru the various versions of towers over the years.

I’m absolutely open to anyone’s opinion they are sharing. I’m enjoying learning and this is hobby I didn’t think I’d get so geeked out on. Thats why I’m here! Plus it’s fun to yack about audio.


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Re: New vs Old - Tweeters
Rebulx #439175 10/17/20 09:04 PM
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IMO a lot of the ti vs v4 debate depends on the content you are playing.

Around the time the ti speakers were developed the audio business was in a downturn while the home theater business was going crazy. I still find ti speakers pretty much ideal for home theater, while they can be a bit edgy on some music.

My theory (supported by some, mocked by others) is that a lot of popular music was mixed with monitor speakers that had a deliberate dip in the 2-4 KHz region (sometimes called "the BBC dip") since that response seemed to be popular with average listeners. The problem was that if you mix and EQ through speakers with a 2-4 KHz dip and then play back on speakers that have a bit of emphasis in that region you can end up with "bright" fairly easily.

Not sure of the reason but I never had that problem with home theater content. I'm guessing that the reference systems used for mixing movies had something closer to a flat or even slightly peaky response in that region, resulting in a more neutral balance across the frequencies...

... or it could just be that music from the 80s and 90s really was as awful as people say it was smile


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