Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater AVR specs explained - need more power?

May be a placebo maybe I have the golden ear but in any case I don't regret my purchase and I have comfort knowing I've got all the power I need.

With this 80+lb unit in my stand.. lol

Agreed. I am curious what you are hearing. Are you hearing:

- wider soundstage
- deeper soundstage
- improved image clarity
- greater space between the images
- improved dynamics
- improved fidelity (eg. bass)

Wow, forgot to reply to this thread.

Apologies!

Since purchasing this amplifier and moving to separates after picking up an Arcam AV860, I can say with confidence that every aspect of my home theatre has improved.

Might be strange to say but I no longer feel fatigued after long usage, crystal clear presentation hearing little details I missed with the old setup. The ability to play it LOUD without distortion and harshness.

Thanks

Now i just need to sort out what I'm doing with the M80v2's I have... but v4's or get the M100's. I have a turntable coming and will be getting into some 2 channel audio really soon.

I thought you have M80v3. How about M2v4 that you can move into the room and get a deep and wide soundstage outside of the speaker boundaries? They're more linear than an M100 but won't go as loud. But you're only 11 feet away. Then you can upgrade the QS8 to QS10.

M5s would work too. M2v4 and M5v4 is better than M80v2. I can hear Alan saying "Dammit Mojo. You should know better. You know it's a matter of degree." Yeah, I know better. M2s and M5s are better.

The plan (so far) was to upgrade the M80's to something newer, move my QS8's to the side wall for surround sides and move a set of on walls to the surround back channels.

Are you saying the M2 and M5's are a better speaker than the M80's with the larger cabinets and more drivers how is that even possible?

Everyone who heard my M80v2 against M5v4, M3v4, M2v4 felt the performance was more emotionally involving and impactful with the v4. The 800 was in the mix. MLP was 12 feet in a 4200 cu ft room. I didn't run the "test" with M50v4 but I can tell you even the M50v4 is better than M80v2.

What is "better"? I've written a ton about this so I'll just summarize. First, the soundstage is more believable. It starts at the front plane of the drivers and moves back. With proper placement and room, the soundstage wraps around with well-recorded material. Second, imaging on that soundstage is more precise and 3D. Third, there is pop and snap in snares, drums, etc. Fourth, the midrange is better with M2 and M5. It's good with M3 and M50 but more mellow due to the lack of the dedicated mid-range. Fifth, the highs are more airy, dispersive and fun to listen to. Sixth, they all acoustically disappear better so you hear music rather than speakers.

All of these qualities exist in all the v4 I mentioned. The active LFRs take all this up many notches. The M3 and M50 are like 480p and the M2 and M5 are like 720p. M100s are like 1080p. But the M100s don't disappear as well.

The smaller boxes and driver complements lead to more of a point source than the floor-standers. So the smaller guys disappear better. But they can't go as loud. But how loud do you need?

The M2s, M3s and M50s go as loud as anyone needs at 12 feet. The M5s are good to 14 feet. M100s can go out to 18 feet. More than that and you're looking at LFRs.

The disappearing act is very important to me and so is imaging and soundstage. I love the M2s for those reasons. M5s too but M2s with sub are more linear than M5s with sub or no sub. Some may prefer the extra warmth of the M5s over the M2. It's a real tough call between those two.

Does this help?

I can 2nd the M2. The amount and quality of sound is surprising for its size. The M2 combined with a EP500 is a killer stereo setup. As for movies we have a 5.1 setup in the family room (VP150 and QS10 surrounds) and it does not disappoint.

I second rlev's post! Most agreed!

Going from towers to M2s in that room as mains for a theater would not be my recommendation -but we know little about the room.

Minorc, If you could give us full room dimensions it would help. We’ve established you sit 11’ away from speakers placed 10’6” apart in a room with 10’ ceilings and employ a membrane up front that covers a concave (almost parabolic) alcove.

How wide is the room and long? What is happpening at the rear of the room?

Or..... Just buy large towers again and let Dirac in your AVR860 help you out. Dirac is pretty dang robust and frankly deals with the issues caused by “too much” easily.

The M2s are nice (heard powered ver. in a computer setup) but not my choice for an explosion in a soundtrack. Large speakers are capable of the soundstage and imaging of small mini monitors if set up properly in the room.

The M2 computer speakers are powered by a 70W max amp with absolutely no dynamic headroom in the power brick. I suppose as computer speakers, that's enough. I have the Audiobytes which are M0 and they are just fine for a 10x10 room.

So the M2 computer speakers may not be a great comparison to bookshelves or on-walls. The bookshelves and OW can take 600W peaks. In my 4200 cu ft set-up, I've measured 105dBC peaks at 12 feet away with an 800. The peaks may actually be higher because my meter may not be capturing the true peaks. In my living room, I've pushed them cleanly to 103dBC with my cheap Sony sub.

Yes, the M5s will go to 107dBC and the M100s to 109 cleanly in the same room and distance. I've found in my main room, anything more than 103dBC peaks is perhaps a waste?

Regarding imaging and soundstage, I have never, no matter how much I tried, been able to get the M100s to image and soundstage like M2s or M5s or even M3s and M50s. The M100 imaging is fantastic between the speakers, they have decent wrap-around with well-recorded material but they cast an acoustic shadow behind them. What i mean by that is I can't see the image "through" their large cabinets. This may sound peculiar but once you hear it, there's no going back. The actives don't have that problem. It's like they are not there at all!

And yet, while the M5 and M2 disappear better than the M100, the lushness of the M100 can't be found in either. One has to figure out what is more important to their needs. My buddy got tranced by the M100s when he first heard them 2 years ago at my place. They sounded like real music more so than M5s and M2s. He finally gave in and he's now tripping out at his house with them but every time he's over, he marvels at the disappearing act the M5s, M2s and actives create. He will never, and I mean absolutely never, get that with the M100s. But he has the lushness!

Indeed minorc has to consider his room and needs. For me, the disappearing act is more important than the lushness. I want the illusion of not listening to a pair of speakers but rather the performance.