Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion The Water Cooler Off-Topic: Seeking Grill advice

I'm in the market for an outdoor propane grill (BBQ) and I want to spend less than $300. I really like the Weber Genesis Silver A, but I'd have to wait a while before enough loose change piled up for it.

Anyone have any ideas?

I'm grill deprived, so I'm no help.

You got it Peter, if you can come up with the dollars, but take a look at look at this and this if you haven't already done so. But why didn't they test with kolbassa?

I really like my Thermos (!) grill. It was relatively inexpensive, and it grills stuff just fine. Of course, mine doesn't have all the fancy dancy stuff like external burners or built in rotisserie, but such things are available in the Thermos line up. I believe that the one with the external burner was only about $30 than I paid. However, I have a stove!

Yeah, I see no reason to pay extra for a side burner -- which is why I have my eye on the Weber Gen. Silver A.

My wife is buying me a grill for my birthday, so she's in charge of how much I/we get to spend. She has offered to set $200 aside now (that was her original budget), and then we could add to it later on.

My current grill does work, but it ancient (came from my Grandma) and doesn't get hot enough to cook a steak in less than 20 minutes. With 4 steaks, the sun goes down before they're done.

My general criterion for a grill is that it gets hot and cooks things.

However, that Weber does have one feature I wish mine had: a gas gauge. I do not look forward to the day when I'm grilling hamburgers and the thing just goes out. (I've had it for less than a year, and I didn't grill at all during the winter.)

In any case, looks like a good choice to me! Better than your current Grill of Doom with the patented flame shooting down the center.

Thanks for the links John. Then confirm what my independent research turned up.

peter, any natural gas in your abode? if so, consider a natural gas grill, use a 12 foot quick disconnect hose, and you'll never need to fill a tank again. if you have any dealers who sell MHP, check them out. they are based on the old charmglo style grills. believe everything is lifetime warranty, which means when it's parts rot out, i won't get to sell you replacement parts:).
dan

peter, make and model number, and what needs to replaced?
dan
damn throw away society

ive had the same weber for 7 years now,every year it fires up with no problem ,frame still looks good.never had to replace a single part....ron

Last year, I replaced my 15 year old rusted Ducane with a Weber Genesis Silver B. I needed something bigger than the A model. I'm very satisfied with it. I upgraded to all stainless, instead of porcelain.

Charcoal > *

I'll second the charcoal.

My 22" Weber kettle is about 5 years old and probably gets used 200 times a year - maybe more. It's still going strong. Sometimes I wish I had gas grill as well - for those times when I've run out of charcoal or don't have time to fool with the charcoal. I know this is blasphemous, but sometimes I think it would be easier to gas when cooking ribs - it's a hassle pre-burning and staging charcoal to keep the temp right...

Whichever you decide, you can't go wrong if you're grilling.

^billy

twodan,

Thanks for the offer, but the whole thing needs replacing. Last year I replaced the burner (H-shape), lower grate, and the grilling surface. I also replaced the lava rocks with pyramidal ceramic briquettes. It still taked forever to heat up. Trust me -- this grill has seen better days. I'd rather not sink any more money into it.

Glad to see you guys discussing this...

I burned my rebuilt hand-me-down Sunbeam grill straight down to the ground...literally!...It fell apart while I was smoking my last brisket...I have pictures... Anyone want to see?

I am interested in if there exists such a beast as this:
A grill that has a wood / charcoal box (aka smoker) off to one side (when you want to smoke something) but also has a propane burner when you do not want to wait on wood or charcoal...

Not really interested in a stack smoker...something that is as wide as a large grill but has the smoke / charcoal box off to the side.

I had thought about buying a good wood / charcoal grill and retrofitting it with a propane burner and lava rocks...

Anybody seen a creature like the above?

Thanks in advance,

WhatFurrer

Haven't seen one but if you find one let me know.

Also, I want to see pictures of you buring stuff down. Thats always interesting.

Peter, try to find a grill with tube burners - they'll last longer than the "H" style. (OR any type that is a clamshell with the crimped outer ring) Also, try to find one that doesn't use briquettes or lava rocks. You'll have fewer uncontrolled flare-ups.

Up here in Canada, a really well built Q is the Napoleon. Not sure about dealers in CA, though. Some have a rear burner for rotising, as well as a smoker tube option. Most also have the option of a Charcoal Tray. Pretty slick - light the charcoal with the gas/propane - when the charcoal is up to temp, shut the gas off and you're good to go.

I have the Prestige II PT450RB with the blue lid and just love it.

Check them out here: http://www.napoleongrills.com/Webshare/index.html

*Side note - at your price point, you will probably be looking at their "Ultra Chef" line. They start at $399 Cdn.

Oh, I forget to mention - Napoleon is another great Canadian company producing high "Value-for-your-dollar" products. They are located in Barrie, about an hour and a half south of Axiom.

Those Napoleon grills look really great.

Peter, you may WANT a decent grill for $300 - just like we all WANT M60's to cost $500. I shopped this issue pretty hard last year (although I did not come up with the Napoleon brand, apparently due to distribution deficiencies). For the options I had, I don't think you can do better than a Weber.

We subscribe to Cook's Illustrated. It is expensive, but it is a great magazine. The test they did was very thorough and informative. I will not assert it "science" but it was compelling. They liked the Weber silver a lot - high, even heat.

I still have a 22" Weber kettle that I have been using for charcoal for about 15 years. It is awesome. There is nothing like charcoal for ultimate control and intense heat. But for convenience and scale, you can't beat gas.

I ended up with a Weber Gold B. I would have gotten the Silver series and been delighted, but we ended up running a new natural gas line in our new house for the stove, and well, while we're at it, let's just go ahead and have natural gas on the patio for the BBQ too. Since I made the commitment to Natural Gas, I would have had to special order just about ANY grill (the LP and NG grills use fundamentally different burners). I found a good deal on a floor model for the NG Gold B and snapped it up.

I like the use of stainless for the grills, flavorizer bars and top of the Gold series. I doubt they work "better", but they do exude a pure sense of purpose that I enjoy. Until I learn more about what I might be missing, I feel pretty confident that I did not pay for diminishing marginal returns. I would not consider a more costly grill, but feel happy that I spent what I did.

A couple of observations: First, charcoal burns hotter than LP gas which burns hotter than NG. Bummer for me. Since I mostly grill beef, I could have used the extra heat, but it is still pretty great. The convenience of being able to get "started" that quickly is something I really appreciate. It is just much faster, with overall much less maintenance than either charcoal or LP.

That being said, I'm spoiled. Few people will have the option to use NG. And the purist in me KNOWS that charcoal is really "better", but it is a compromise I make in order to have more time and to use the grill more often.

Whether NG or LP, you can impart excellent smoke flavor by employing a pouch of hard wood chips. I put about a cup of apple wood chips (my favorite, and yes, I do think it makes a difference) into a couple thicknesses of heavy duty foil. Then, I crimp up the foil around the edges so that it is a flat square about 3" across. Poke about 5 small holes in the top and bottom with the tip of a knife. Set it on the grill and close the lid about 7 minutes before you want to start cooking. When you start getting smoke, throw the meat on and close the lid again. It's NOT charcoal, but it is a pretty effective method.

Sorry for the long post. Most of you know all this already, I'm sure. It is something for which I have some passion, so I wanted to share my experience.

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(the LP and NG grills use fundamentally different burners).

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I've also heard success from the nat gas jockeys (the guys that do installs) that simply boring out the venturis works for converting a propane to nat gas. I can't speak for how well it works... I've eaten food off their BBQs and it seems to work well, but with no first hand experience - I can't say for sure.

Bren R.

tom, if you need more heat from your grill drill out the orifices. find the size it is using your regular drill bits. then drill out one size up. try it for a week. if it's still not enough for you, go the next step bigger. remember you can't go back. this is how i turned all of my grills from lpg to nat gas, of course with an in line regulator too.
dan
in almost all posts i respond to, regarding grills, i suggest an MHP, even though i don't sell them. webbers are fine, just more $$$. guess the mhp would be the axiom of grills, though not scientifically proven:)

Tom, you absolutely right. I couldn't imagine having to go and fill up propane tanks again. Having the Q on NG is sooo convenient.

Actually, the burner in a LP or NG BBQ is identical. Bren was on the right track. The difference is the orifice size. NG is larger. Virtually any Q can be converted from LP to NG by changing the hose and orifices. (And yes, if you know what you are doing, they can be drilled out larger)

When you were at the Napoleon site, did you happen to see that Charcoal tray? Basically, you would remove a set of sear plates (or flavourizer bars as Weber calls them) and set the tray in their place. Use the gas burner to light the charcoal and away you go. Works pretty sweet.

Ah, I see Dan beat me to the punch

So, no voodoo, just a bigger hole. Go figger. Thanks for the explanation.

Lighting the charcoal with the NG. You guys want to help me explain THAT one to the wife? "So, you spent hundreds of dollars running NG, and hundreds more on a grill so that you could be relieved of having to use a charcoal chimney?!?!?" Promising, though. Covert, for now.

Thanks for the MHP reccomendation. Unfortunately, there are no dealers in NorCal. The closest is in Fresno (shudder).

I bought the Weber Genesis Silver A yesterday, with the stainless steel grill and flavorizer bars (a step up from porcelain-enameled steel). Birthday money really came through this year. My wife and her parents went beyond the call of duty.

Tonight, I'll break it in with a nice flank steak that has been marinating since last night. Droooool....

I've never heard of those speakers, but the grille sounds interesting. That oughta keep your kids fingers away from the drivers.

Good one, Jack! I think all speakers should come with "flavorizer bars".

Peter, you'll love that thing. Congrats.

mmm...now i'm hungry.

if you ever make it out to stanford mall, get some Fred's Steak from Schaubs (next to Max's diner). THE BEST tri tip, needs no prep, just drop it on the grill.

where do you get your applewood chips? and do you moisten them before putting them in the pouch?

Peter - regrettably, I am still looking for a *reliable* supply of applewood chips. I buy them when I see them, in all sorts of places (hardware stores, cooking shops, closeouts at Ross or TJ Maxx, etc.).

However, I recently started to use the applewood, um, I guess you'd call it "mulch" that is designed for the Luhr Jensen Little Chief smoker. My hope is that this product will be satisfactory and will also be more widely available. It's really more like coarse sawdust than chunks. Jury is still out on that, as I'm having to tweak the proportions and method a bit.

In either case, I'm not soaking or wetting the wood product. Just put it in the foil, poke only about 4 holes in top and bottom of the pouch with the tip of a steak knife, put it on the grill (not on the flavorizers). When you start to smell the smoke (5-7 minutes?), put on the meat. It will probably give you good smoke for 10-15 minutes.

thanks for the tip

Peter, if possible we would like a comparison of the flavor of the steak done on the flavorizer bars with it done on an entry level grill.

Peter, congrats on the addition to the family! That is one sweet Q! I can just see you there cooking away - you'll look down at your son and say, "Just think, this will be your's one day son!"

Tom, I was always told to soak the wood for at LEAST an hour first. That way they will smoke longer and not burn. I may have to try it your way next time.

I'll be doing ribs Saturday. Any suggestions as to methods and/or which wood I should use. I have access to these 4 different wood chips

don't forget to try beer can chicken.

i dont know if you guys up north can get mesquite wood, but it is worth giving a try to cook your steaks over. it is the smoke of choice around here, probably cause it is soooo abundant. if you have never had mesquite smoked BBQ, i highly recommend it.

its kinda funny, when we go camping, we usually take mesquite wood for the camp fire.. well, after 2-3 days of camping with the mesquite smoke blowing over everything, all of the equipment and your clothes smell like a BBQ restaurant. i have nightmares of trying to eat me shirt every once and a while.

bigjohn

I second that.
Soaking the chips first creates more smoke and a longer burning time for the chips.
For those who use a charcoal grill, like myself, you can also use the chips to help get the fire going which is a better option than 2 cans of lighter fluid.

We've tried hickory, cedar, mesquite and maple planks/chips with jumbo shrimp, steaks, various fish filets (mostly salmon or tuna), burgers, smokies, potatoes and lobster tails.
The chips are easier to use than the planks for smoking purposes unless you are smoking with different woods for different foods. Then obviously the planks are the better option but be warned, too large a plank and it curls away from the heat such that your food may roll off.

Thanks for the link, Shawn. I like the looks of "smoker tube"!

As far as soaking the chips, I mostly grill beef over NG. And I'm inherently lazy. When I used charcoal, I soaked the chips for an extended period (usually in black beer) and threw them on the coals. I really don't need an extended smoking period, since I've only got the food on the grill for ~15 minutes anyway.

My wife likes apple better than Mesquite. 'nuff said.

You guys are making me hungry! Great thread; let's continue to share on this.

Little Steven supervised from his Exer-saucer as I grilled the flank steak yesterday evening. It turned out amazing. Seared on the outside with some crisy black edges, but deliciously pink in the center. It was soooooo goooood! (I used the flank steak marinade recipe from the cookbook that came with the grill.)

I made the mistake of lightly oiling the grill with olive oil before pre-heating, and ended up with burned oil stains all over the grill. Oh well. It really looks broken-in now.

When I gave my wife the first sliver of the steak, her face melted and she said, "This is why I eat meat." I couldn't agree more.

Speaking of flank steak, the last time we ate one it was pounded into submission into a flat and thin slab, coated with a mixture and then deep fried.
I believe the Texas term is "chicken fried steak".
Funny thing, when i was in Austin last November, we could not find a single place that sold it except for our hotel!! I doubt the Crowne Plaza Austin has the best chicken fried steak in town but after walking for an hour and asking at 4 different steak houses, we gave up.
Nonetheless, chicken fried steak is one excellent dish.

Chicken-fried steak is what they use to get rid of USDA Commercial grade steaks.

come to san angelo.. you wont be able to find a restaurant that doesnt't serve chicken fried steak. even the mexican joints serve it. chicken fry(as we call it), is a staple menu item around these parts.. i probably have some lodged in my arteries right now..

bigjohn

I have been told by many many people to get some chicken fried steak at my first opportunity. And I must say, it sounds like a great idea to me!

i agree.. how can you fry anything and not make it better..

this year at the TEXAS STATE FAIR in dallas, they introduced some new desserts to the midway.. among the big hits were.. fried twinkies, fried cheesecake, and fried candybars(snickers, milky way, 3 musketeers).

i am planning my trip for next year..

my dad used to say you could bread and fry a dog-terd and make it taste good.. thank god he never tried it, i think?

bigjohn

one of my favorite desserts is fried ice cream....no joke.

That stuff is fantastic. I've only found it in Arizona, though. Where else can you get it?

All El Torito restaurants serve fried ice cream.

nevermind. Of course, the rest of the food is crap, so I never stay to look at the dessert menu...

In reply to:

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Funny thing, when i was in Austin last November, we could not find a single place that sold it except for our hotel!! I doubt the Crowne Plaza Austin has the best chicken fried steak in town but after walking for an hour and asking at 4 different steak houses, we gave up.

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chesseroo,

If you find yourself in Austin again, ask for directions to THREADGILL'S. There are two locations...Lamar and Downtown.

Down home Texas Chicken Fried Steak, the way it was meant to be enjoyed, smothered in cream gravy...with homestyle vegetables (that come with free seconds...veggies not meat).

Too bad I was not on the Axiom board back then...I could have pointed you to a number of great places to eat downtown...

Austin...Live Music AND Great Food...

WhatFurrer

I was TYRING to think of the name of that place! I ate at Threadgills a few years ago while in Austin. It was fabulous. I really adore chicken fried steak, and that place was mecca. Great food, fun place. The Texas Capitol building was really memorable, too.

We have just enough transplants from other places in the Seattle/Tacoma area that you can usually find some pretty credible food of just about any type, including CFS. What Furrer said about presentation - it ain't right without the cream gravy.

Tom, I took your advise and picked up the "apple wood" chips. Thank-you. Unfortunately, I couldn't bring myself to NOT soak the chips. Actually, I think I soaked them too long. The grill was at 600deg for over 20minutes and there was only a faint smell coming from the tube. My guests (more like my wife) were getting impatient, so on went the ribs. Since she baked them in the oven first, they weren't on the Q long enough to absorb any of the smoke smell or flavour.

Just as I was removing them, the tube came alive with copious amounts of smoke. I yelled in and had her send out some frozen chicken breasts. Having cooked on straight natural gas for the past decade, this was a revalation. They came out awesome. The applewood imparted a wonderful mellow flavour that wasn't overpowering. I am almost depressed that I missed so many years without smoking!

So next time, I will cut the soak time in half (from an hour down to 30min), or take your tip and not soak them at all.

Shawn

Right on, Shawn! I'm so glad that you find promise in that method. But you ARE making me hungry

Tell me more about the ribs. Beef or pork? Bone in or out? Use a rub? How long do you pre-cook them? I'm eager to learn.

Shawn, i have a bag of mesquite and hickory chips downstairs. The instructions on the back confirm what i saw on a bbq (food network) show yesterday.
They recommend soaking the chips for 20-40min and mix 2/3rds wet with 1/3rd dry.
The wet creates more smoke and for a longer period of time while the dry acts like tinder to keep the wet smokin.
I use charcoal myself and need to find a starter chimney.

Ok, here we go! Our favorite is baby back pork ribs, bone-in. We have no hard and fast rules as to cooking them. Our thought is to have fun!

This time around, she rubbed them with a montreal steak spice, put them in a roasting pan with water, and cooked them (covered) for 3 to 4 hours at 350deg. I had to be careful when it came time to grill, as they were falling apart!! I can't remember which BBQ sauce she used. (We usually have 3 to 4 bottles open at a time) It could have been one of these "Diana" sauces. We also like the Southern Comfort BBQ sauce, as well as the 6 sauces from this guy.

Sometimes we will use different spice, as well as adding lemon slices to the pan. Often we will substitute the water for beer / gingerale / juice. It is really fun to experiment. THAT'S why I was so excited to try and smoke them. I'll know better next time. Even without the smoking, they were a big success. The key is to always cook them in the oven first.

Ah-ha! That's the trick! Mix wet & dry - Thanks Chess!

It's supposed to be sunny here this weekend. I'll have to grab a pork roast for the rotisserie and try to smoke again.

What do you think of this BBQ with integrated chimney.

That bbq grill is pretty swank to the one that we own. Two years ago we decided not to spend alot on a bbq until we settled someplace a bit more permanently. At that time we wanted a quick and dirty bbq for a house warming party so i bought a $12 CanTire metal special and 2 bags of quick lite charcoal along with the wood chips. We still have the bbq and it has been used about 6 or 7 times since (we do not bbq that much and usually utilize an electric grill for most dinners except when company is over).
That little bbq has paid itself off several times over now.
We're looking into buying a more full sized bbq (with a lid) that can burn duel fuel, both propane and charcoal.
Personally i prefer bbq'ing over nothing but real wood.

Ah... a BBQing thread to go with the beer thread. Car racing has been covered. What's next? The best brothels in Nevada?

Please note that I am not complaining.

[sound of palm slapping forehead] Wet AND Dry! Of course!

I never really warmed up to that whole "reading the directions" thing. Next thing you know, Chess is going to tell us that he stops to ask for directions too.

This brand has become popular lately and can be found at many Safeway and Costco outlets (at least in Canada).
However, the wife and I prefer to make our own sauce and have a variation based on this recipe. It really needs to be cooked down good and thick so we usually quintuple the recipe quantity.
Surprisingly the recipe given by Emeril for a bbq sauce was not that good.

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Chess is going to tell us that he stops to ask for directions too.

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Actually i usually just tell my wife that i'm lost. She tends to keep on track with the map.
Directions are amazing things and provide the recipe for the failure or success of...well a recipe.

Egads, that Cattle Boys splash photo... it looks like something from a San Fran nightclub.

Bren R.

I was waiting to hear the Village People playing in the background.

WAIT A MINUTE!!! Tom - are you saying that things and places may have directions available???? Good God, what's next?

How's that grill working out for you, pmb? I'm thinking about making the switch back to propane (I can't believe I'm saying that) due to laziness and a lack of free time. The Weber can be had at Home Depot and my local CostCo currently has a couple to choose from that look like this one:

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=10038077&whse=&topnav=&cat=236&hierPath=114*236*

Anybody have any experience, or know anybody that does, with the stainless CostCo grills?
Thanks.

pmb, get the big Webber charcoal grill. You don't need no stinking propane! Charcoal, especially mesquite charcoal gets much, much hotter than a propane grill. Your food will taste much better, and you'll save yourself plenty of money.

Get one of those chimney charcoal starters - you just put a piece of newspaper in the bottom, coals on top, light the paper and come back in 15 minutes for perfect white coals with no diesel taste you would get from starter fluid.

Hey BigWill - I looked at those Front Avenue Costco grills too. Very compelling. I found, after some snooping around, that they are Char-Broil by a different name.

I have the Weber Genesis Gold and like it very much. Besides my need for a NG rather than LP grill, a couple of things led me to the Weber instead of the Front Avenue. First, Cook's Illustrated did one of their vaunted comparisons a few years ago and found that, of the gas grills they tested, the Weber heated hotter and more evenly than other models. Second, and purely subjective, I have always liked Weber products and they seem to be well-focused on quality.

As an aside, I received a Weber rotisserie for Father's Day and it is just super. It has a rotating basket, so the metal rod does not even go through the middle of your food. Quiet, strong motor. Very satisfying.

BigWill (and 2x6),

The Weber Genesis Silver A is working out great for me. I bought the one with stainless steel guts (i.e. grilling surface and flavorizer bars). I wanted propane because of the faster startup time (no need to wait for coals to pre-burn) and less mess. I know charcoal makes your food taste better, but the extra fuss isn't worth it at this time.

I love how easy it is to clean, as well. The metal grill has two pieces that fit into a kitchen sink for soaking and scrubbing.

nothing but good luck with my weber,will probably buy another when this one dies-if it dies-..also,sears has some kenmore grills that look heavy duty........ron

I got one of the Sears Kenmore BBQ's a month ago.....has been used every weekend since. No problems....I love it.

Thanks, peoples.

Tom, did any of those reviews include the CostCo grills? (they have a product line other than the one I linked to - though the help line is the same number for both grills).

pmb, think any part of that grill is gonna rust up soon? My current BBQ is rusting something fierce and the old lady is picky about her concrete. I got in big trouble once for flinging the mop sauce down on the patio.

2x6, that mesquite charcoal from old Mexico burns hotter than sh!t and lasts a long, long time. It also leaves very little ash, so if you have a smoker/grill combo it is ideal for long smoking sessions. It is also great for charring up steaks, but it takes a long time to go out. I've been out there at midnight waiting for the coals to die out so I can cover my BBQ. No more time for serious bbqing, I guess.

Mark, the July/August 2003 Cooks' Illustrated review is excellent, but I am a subscriber to the magazine, not to the website (inexplicably, they are separate subscriptions). So I cannot link the review directly. I'll make a copy and send it to you.

They tested alongside Consumer Reports for this purpose, and "Highly Recommended" the Weber Genesis Silver A, Weber Genesis Silver B (Peter's grill, I think) and the Jenn-Air JA460P. My grill is the same as Peter's except it has a SS hood and an additional side table (which I rarely use).

Notably, they rated a Char-Broil Professional Series, Model 463-2335 ($900!) as "Recommended, with reservations". I cannot be sure, but the picture does resemble the Front Avenue grill at Costco. It did not get as hot as the Weber (580F v. 710F).

The comments on the Char-Broil were: "Neither steaks nor eggplant cooked as evenly as they should have, yet both chicken and salmon were impressive. The grill maintained a low temperature for salmon with minimal adjustment. Burner knobs offered little travel between high and low settings, so fine tuning the heat could be a challenge. Also, watch your hand when shutting off the gas valve after cooking; the clearance between the valve and the piping hot drip pan is minimal, so it is easy to burn the top of your hand."

Now, please note that I cannot verify that this is exactly the same grill, and there may have been meaningful improvements to the Char-Broil line since that time. So the comparison may be meaningless. However, it left me with just enough doubt to go with the Weber.

The Front Avenue manual is here.

I could not get the manual for the exact model number of the reviewed grill to load on the Char-Broil site, but I'm pretty sure that this is the NG equivalent.

The Front Avenue grill looks like an excellent value to me, especially since it includes the rotisserie. But I'm really happy with my Weber, and do not wonder "what if?".

Thanks, Tom.

I just finished charring up some USDA Choice rib-eyes. Roasted some garlic 909-style (in foil), tortillas and butter, all washed down with a tart bottle of Sangiovese. Sinfully good.