Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Technical Questions Ceiling Heights and Expectations

Hi All,

Can someone point me to thread that discussed ceiling height. ? ( this would be easiest but if y’all want to jump in on a new thread I’d welcome it. I recall a good discussion a while back about room size shape dimension but can’t recall where that is or if there was a ceiling height discussion. ).

Or , please comment on your experience with ceiling heights in terms of quality of soundstage and imaging / holographic possibility or any nuances with various heights snd their sonic affects.

For example, differences between 8,9,10, or 12 foot ceilings.

Or if anyone can comment on 7 foot ceilings specifically or 12 foot ceilings specifically.

I’m thinking I sort of understand the sonic affects of large open spaces versus small ones and room shapes but height is one I haven’t considered much.

Thanks everybody,

Kodiak.

Going out on a limb here since i haven't researched much on room dimensions post-media room build 15 years ago.

The ceiling heights play into the role no different than the total distances of walls that make up the room dimensions along with room shape. With a perfect square room (10x10x10), you will have reflection points that are easily calculated. Similar to a rectangular room (10x10x8) but the reflection points will be drawn out and not 'on top of' each other (so to speak) which vary more with increasingly different dimensions (15x8x21.5). The best designed rooms typically have some asymmetry to them and preferably less hard angles and it's why you see amphitheaters with those crazy ceiling shapes and typically a fan shape seating area. Even those rooms usually have acoustical treatments.

There are lots of good references on building a room and room dimensions, been discussed many times on these forums over the years, though i don't think i have any specific threads saved in my list of threads.
Trevor is best dialed in on this topic so if he doesn't respond, send him a PM. Best if you have a specific question to ask such as "my room is Y by X with Z ceilings and i want to add some sound panels to improve P"...

When designing my HT I was aiming for a 11’ finished ceiling for modal and large screen reasons. After many compromises I will end up with something like 8’ 10”. Bass wise I’m fairly sure it’s going to be fine given 4 subs to even things out but it’s going to be a bit tight screen wise. No problems with imaging ... right now the 1/2 finished height is 9’ 2” ... cement floor and plywood walls and ceiling.

Resonances are calculated by 1130/2L

So 11’ ceilings = 1st order node of 51.36hz.

Ideal room is 10h x 17w x 23l

Avoid rooms with common dimensions or squares.

The neutral points for modes are 0.2/0.32/0.45/0.55/0.68/0.8 times any dimension. Putting listeners on these ratios, or speakers/subs ensures more neutral response. Avoid sitting in the middle of the length dimension. -Null at room fundamental and peak at 2nd harmonic.

Increasing height increases volume. Practically, there is no reason to expand height unless you are looking to accomodate tiered seating or as Rich is, a large screen. Beyond 10’ you are causing issues unless you plan on treatment. Long bare reflections = long decay times = Not nice. Long decay times lead to poor dynamics and decreased speech intelligibility (especially on the length axis.). Expect unpredictable zings and boings in tall ceiling rooms. Pop a balloon and see.

Large rooms trend to longer decay times in general. In reproduction, we want shortish times. In live sound we want longer times. In practice, it totally depends what you are using the room for and how many listeners, etc you are looking to fit. I would recommend you buy a reference book and stop online research. Lot of boneheads on AVS and youtube that will end up costing you wasted time.

FWIW, you can make any existing room feel bigger with diffusers.

Fwiw, my basement HT is 7.5h x 14.5w x 22ish long. Height is A-ok.

Yeah, the original plan had a lot more treatment in it. That got pulled when I decided that i was probably trying solve non-existent problems and that I should wait and see if I had them first. The exception to that was going with 4 subs. It would have been smarter if I ordered two and added more if needed but hey, sometimes one gets a bit carried away in this hobby

You'd have never known if 2 were good enough. Sure, it would have sounded good, but could it have sounded better? With 4, you can test that. Four will sound better BTW.

Are you wondering about 8?

4 already takes up too much space ...

Maybe a stacked topology.

You may laugh but I've tried it. Room loading is soooooo much better with 500s stacked on 600s.

EP1100s to go with LFR1100s?

Mojo I’m not shocked in the least you tried stacking your 500/600. !!!

Thanks everyone for your chatter here on this topic. It’s helpful.

We are moving into a new house soon and I’m speculating on future places in the house to try out for systems. Which is why I asked about ceiling heights. We will have one large open room which is a “great room “ with 12 foot ceilings that drops to nine feet into the kitchen and dining room. About 1100 square feet in all. ( still need to measure accurately ).

And then we have an unfinished basement with 7 foot ceilings. 1200 sq feet. All concrete floors and walls with 2 inch rigid styrofoam insulation bolted to the concrete all the way around. Thinking about a home theatre down there?

There’s going to be many options to try. It will take time to have $$$ to upgrade and build up systems but the house has many interesting spaces to utilize.

Anyway we don’t move until March and nothing will happen quick but wanted to share my stoke for new spaces to build up systems and start to learn about how ceiling heights effect the outcome.

I knew you were going to say that

If using a projector, height matters. If you need/want a second or third row, heigh matters. Ceiling speaker placement can be a bit more forgiving if you have the additional height to play with (geometry). My HT has about 8.5' ceiling height. 9' would have been better. 10' better yet. 11', too much height......

Perhaps, but I needed extra room to raise the floor. It’s actually a platform in the room. Also the top speakers are mounted below the ceiling (M3ow’s on FMBs). Guess I wasn’t giving you the whole story .... plus I was inconsistent with the meaning of the numbers I gave since the 8’ 10” includes the floor.

Our HT room dimensions are:
13.5 w x 16 L x 7 H

The tv and primary speakers are setup on the short axis so from our chairs, the left to right distance is 16' and thus our distance to the tv looking straight ahead is about 11'. This is not a rectangle though. We have one angled wall on the left side, the ceiling angles down behind the couches, and on the right side we have a bulk header block all of which breaks up the room.
It is one i have yet to measure, but i think i'll probably do it relatively soon. Trevor passed on some info about apps for phones and at least it gives something to use for a test, even if not overly accurate compared to using REQ and a proper mic.

Once the last of changes are made i'll repost pics of the latest media room. The ones i had posted years ago seem to no longer be up in the gallery.

Indeed.
One of the reasons we decided to not continue forward with a plan to put in a projector in the room. It would sit too low with the ceiling height and with noise and heat, plus a limited screen size of 80" maybe, it made sense to wait for cheaper large screen tvs to evolve.
Now they have.
And 4k on this LG OLED is damn impressive.
I could post pics but the pics wouldn't do it justice.

Audiotools is accurate. Mic capsule is compensated for (ipad/iphone mics are supported -no other manufacturers.). External mics work as well but you must use a mic preamp interface.

I don't believe that is a free app though correct?
REW is, but i have nothing to run it on (not a laptop house).

No. Think its 20$ and plugin modules on top of that are extra.

Charles, I'm going with dual, stacked EP1600s up front. You'll see.