Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Surrounds to combat a live room?

The M50 to M5 thread -
https://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/u...-to-m5hp-upgrade-expectations#Post440662
- drifted over to surrounds and it triggered a thought:

I am about to set up a stereo system in what I fear is a too reflective room and I have two concerns (one on the liveliness and one on the stereo):
(1) I've really gotten use to using all-channel stereo to give me an artificially rich sound, and I think I'm going to miss it.
(2) How to correct a the live room without room treatments.

Would QS4s help with both of those? (I'd run the QS4 surrounds in "stereo" mode.)

Hmm... I have to think that the best way to combat a live room is to make it a bit less live.

That will take room treatments but all kinds of things count as treatments, from a carpet on the floor to wall hangings to a bookcase full of books to replacing/removing a glass coffee table.

Ditto what Mr. Bridgman said.

Peel drywall off in areas where treatment is desired. Stuff cavity with Safe n Sound. Cover cavity with stretched fabric or linen. Add moulding to suit taste to cover edges.

About to do it in a bar in the washroom corridor.

Low (no) profile solution that is reversible if you keep the rectangle of drywall removed.

With a modern hard surface living space- leave openings open. Open windows. Sound has to decay into something to reduce in volume. Creating a larger container or paths where reflections cannot recombine with the direct signal will improve sound quality.

Yes, QS series speakers could even out the soundfield and allow you to listen at a lower output overall. Less energy = less problems to deal with. More speakers in more places is always a good strategy for non ideal setups (usually in surround though)

Think of lighting a room, Are 2 bright lights or 6 potlights better? Well.... you will have to decide based on being there and personal taste.

Interesting alternatives Trevor. Not sure I’d picture frame a piece of cloth in my living room though. Good points on openings.

I think as long as you want to be surrounded by sound with no direction and don’t mine the loss of definition a lively room may actually enhance the effect. Objects and rugs would probably keep it reasonable. I’m thinking ambient sound. ... QS10s in mono.

Back in the day, I used to practice cello in a small (8x6?) practice room. If you clapped your hand it took 1 or two second for it to decay. The sound was grand and everywhere. I’d go as far as to say it was awesome.

The alternative is to get some 1x4 boards and make a picture frame with a cross board going across the middle. Glue down the safe and sound then wrap with speaker fabric. Make several and hang them to your wall. Easily removable.

Acoustic panels are fairly easy to build. NickBuol and I used Owens Corning 703 2x3 insulated sheets and built wood frames, followed by some black material and white sheet backing.

Yeah, they dont have to be ugly. Can look like whatever you want.

Here's one we built as a recording tool to help vocalists hear themselves in the booth.

One side vocal kicker, other side pure absorber.

7' x 4' framed, 2.5" (maybe 3 don't remember) of Roxul, acoustically transparent fabric cover. Works to tame a reflective room.

Nice!

Thanks Trevor. Not bad for a patzer.

2x ... picture lights on you absorbers ... hmmmm ...
If it's framed like art, lit like art, and hung to be appreciated like art ... it must be art!!

BTW, there are places that print on fabric. In some forum somewhere (think avs) a bunch of people printed movie posters, covered and framed their absorbers and hung them as pictures in their HTs. Now that's true movie art.

Thanks for all the tips. Of course, I was going for the completely lazy solution, but the acoustic panels do look nice and don't look that hard to whip up. The rear wall does have a spot for a panel; and I could lobby for heavier curtains all around.

Has anyone every done anything clever with a stone fireplace that is never used?

Also, the question was explorative, I may not need anything; I have never had speakers in this room so I may get lucky. Someone had mentioned a "clap test" somewhere along the line and when I did that I got nervous with the results. We'll see soon; the three weeks are up and I'm waiting on good shipping news from Axiom.

Pop a balloon

Ah Mr. rrlev, I thought the lights would be cool. I do like the way the framed fabric looks.

I just realized it's been 4 weeks since I ordered, not 3. What's the recent experience on how prompt Axiom's shipments out are (customs aside)? I have some experience, it's all been very prompt; but it's mostly not recent experience.

I would say a little slower than some of my other orders have gone out but I always opt for the ICW for the discount and everything has shipped before or by the allotted 21 business days.

I called Axiom and it looks like it's being held up by the amp that was part of the order. Arrgh - it's killing me!

International chip shortage?

Well that doesn't bode well for me. Guess my amp will be taking a while to ship too.

That was the implication. I had ordered both the M80s and the LFR660 so I could compare them (Axiom was great about ordering both and keeping the one I like best). When I found out it was the amp holding it up I asked if they could ship the M80s because my amp can handled those if I don't crank it, and they were shipped out within hours; so that's fantastic. I'll just have to do my initial comparison a little one-sided.

Did they give you any indication when your amp might ship?

Alot of electronics are slow to ship these days. So many reasons from volume of shipping and parcel increase since covid started, reduced parts availability (processing chips from overseas for example), plus the labour reduction with spacing or some factories closed, partially closed.
It will just take more time. Not something our modern first world is used to with immediate convenience and satisfaction culture these days.
My only beef is when you buy something and then don't hear anything or they don't tell you in advance this order could take up to three months, especially when the website remains unchanged since pre-covid and still says "will ship within 1-2 weeks".
To me that's false advertising though it could also just come from lazyness in not updating the website shipping times.

Looking forward to hearing your impression of the LFRs. I heard them on one of our factory tours, last time we were there. I haven't changed around our media room Axioms yet so there is temptation, but likely i'll keep within the lower budget originally set.

He mentioned 3 weeks. But it was an informal call, I wasn't pressing for specifics; so I'm not sure if that was firm, or their best guess.

I'll definitely report back on the comparison. I'm with you on the budget; I'm sure I'd have been quite happy with a pair of M60s, but this was my retirement present to myself AND I'm unlikely to get another pair of speakers. So if this wasn't the perfect time to go crazy, there'd never be one.

I'm glad you're getting both to compare. Otherwise you'd never find peace. What finishes?

Wow! That is pretty exciting for both sets of speakers. Looking forward to your impressions of the 660

So you know me then? Yeah, I would have driven myself batty.

It was between cherry-chestnut and cherry-bordeaux, and I finally decided on cherry-bordeaux. I liked the chestnut a lot and that was my favorite going in; but on the sample they sent me the shading was very blotchy - some spots very dark and some light. I just couldn't take a chance on that for the final product.

The M80s were always the dream set; and then the board led me to the LFRs and they seemed perfect for me. I wasn't going to get both without Axiom saying it was okay; that would feel slimy; but once they did I've definitely been looking forward to comparing them at home. So yes, very excited Trevor!

I hope the bordeaux is not too red for you. I love my chestnut!

Did you get HP drivers?

I got HP drivers in the M80, but they don't offer them on the LFR660. I don't think I'm going to need them for my listening preferences; but that's another thing I'm looking forward to compare.

I like the red, so I don't think it'll be too much. I really liked both stains on the rosewood too (with rosewood I'd have gone with chestnut), but I couldn't bring myself to splurge that much. Did you ever post a picture of your chestnut's? If you remember the posting I would love a link.

You've seen them before. The photos had driven you to ponder between the chestnut and bordeaux.

Cherry chestnut 125s:

https://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/u...the-new-and-in-with-the-newer#Post441527

Cherry chestnut top on the Freedom:

https://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/u...the-new-and-in-with-the-newer#Post439189

More cherry chestnut 125s:

https://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/u...the-new-and-in-with-the-newer#Post439366

Thanks Mojo, I did see the 1st two, but must not have noticed that last one. They do look great; but they also show signs of what I didn't like about my sample. It might just be how the cherry accepts stain, in which case I screwed up Well, not screwed up, but got my 2nd choice. I'll know soon.

I love, love, love that look! It's like the cherry was flailed with a bullock whip made of chestnuts and its character is showing through. You need strong light to see this character though. In subdued lighting, the effect is not as pronounced.

Between the cherry chestnut and walnut bordeaux, I take the cherry. Natural walnut is still my fave but I have to say, with the exception of walnut nutmeg, I love them all.

It is quite obvious you messed up actually. You should have bought M80s in bordeaux and M60s in chestnut. The M80s are destined for a return!!!

Cork, keep me posted if you get a shipping notification on your amp.

Mojo, I had 6 samples sent to me and it took 4 weeks to make up my mind; so yeah, I understand loving them all! We both know it's highly likely it's the M80s going back, but I had to be sure; and even if I had thought of that, I wouldn't have had enough guts, just in the off chance. Plus, I might wind up picking the speakers based on the stain. (I'm that superficial.)

CanesFan, will do.

Yeah, I admire you for auditioning both. I suppose depending on your room and where they're placed, sound may not matter and looks may be more important. I know a lady who bought $38K speakers because they looked good. She put one in the corner and the other against a side wall. Please don't do that!!

That's some expensive decorations.

She listens to them but she has no clue about soundstage, imaging, etc. It's like buying a Bugatti and driving it back and forth to the corner store.

That's a good analogy. I can't imagine spending that much and not taking the time to set them up correctly.

There are people in this world who are very insensitive to costs. For example the head of Enron built his dog a $50,000 dog house (back in the day and before he went to jail).

Did you try to give her a hint that maybe she wasn't getting the best results from her layout? Or best not go there?

No, looks would not be more important, but it would delay my decision and I'd wing up wanting them both.

No one tells this lady what to do or gives her hints. Let her live in her reality.

LOL
A good friend of mine worked for Enron Canada. And he was an accountant. Apparently his admin assistant was one of the Enron playboy girls (by chance, he swears he didn't know).

One thing about income, people tend to live up their income levels as a generality.
You make 40k a year, you drive a Toyota Corrolla and dream about that BMW thinking, if i only made 90k a year. You make 90k a year you have the BMW but dream about the Lamborghini thinking if only i made 400k a year. I suspect many who buy audio are in the same boat. How many millionaires come to buy nothing but Axiom speakers?
The concept of price:quality really gets lost. More must mean better, swankier, prettier, whatever.
Ego and greed drive this world.

How's that for deep on a Wednesday night?

So true!