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How do you know it's better
#443522 09/12/21 11:19 PM
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rrlev Offline OP
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When evaluating audio equipment and speakers by ear ...
How do you know what you perceive as "better", is really better?

Is what you're hearing a more accurate reproduction of the recording or is it one modified to your liking. Your ear-brain can say: "these guitars sound real", "this system gave this recording a presence I've never heard before" or "this speaker sounds better than that one". But can you tell if the equipment it's going though is accurately presenting the recording?

I know, Floyd Toole, did double blind testing on speakers and statistically we could tell ... but that's not the way most purchase equipment nor how we evaluations things we discuss on this board. So, given that ... how can we tell by ear alone?

For example if you take a recording which is less than perfect and put it though System A and it sounds a bit harsh but though System B it sounds great ... is System B better?

Perhaps B is distorting it, such as rounding off some harshly clipped peaks in the recording (which a tube amp would do if you ran it slightly into clip) and System A is reproducing it perfectly (clipped peaks and all)

IMO this is where measurements come into play as your ear can tell you if you like the sound but can't tell you if what was put in is exactly what is coming out. Most of us evaluate speakers by taking known recordings and trying to compare on them on different systems, usually by memory. Lots of problems with that IMO ... lots of places to be fooled ...

If System B is your reference ... what does that say for all that is evaluated against it.
What does that say for all your carefully picked reference material.

Just putting it out there ... (let the fun begin)

Re: How do you know it's better
rrlev #443523 09/13/21 12:35 AM
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Yes, a sound system recreates music that was recorded, and then re-recorded. Yes, a less less revealing system may smooth over the defects of a recording which a more accurate system will reveal resulting in a more pleasing musical experience from the lesser system.

However, to the question: "When evaluating audio equipment and speakers by ear ... How do you know what you perceive as "better," is really better?"

The answer should not depend on how a system reproduces a poor recording. If the output from a good source reproducing a well recorded musical event sounds more like "live music," it is better. That is the desideratum.

At the back end of the chain of events is a musical performance. It is then recorded (recording no. 1), it is then mastered (modification no. 1), it is then re-recorded on some medium, tape, vinyl, CD, SACD, the master or some subsequent iteration may then be digitized (recording/modification no. 2) it may then be compressed, (modification no. 3), or recorded from digital to vinyl or CD, etc. Focus on the head of the chain (the musical event) not the cloacal end of the matter.

Get you a great analog recording (vinyl or tape, 1/4" or better) play it through an excellent system (cartridge, tone arm, turntable, phono stage, preamp, amplifier, speakers) or, if you are really flush, a master tape on an excellent reel to reel tape player, and enjoy.

Digital cannot match analog in reproducing the live musical experience. Of course a bad recording on vinyl in a poor system can't achieve this desideratum either. You can get closer, but never achieve the reproduction of a live musical event (it is possible the get really close for an excellent recording of guitar, or a small ensemble), especially of large scale regardless of the quality of the system and recording. You simply cannot move enough air. But you can get closer.

That is the quest.

Last edited by 2x6spds; 09/13/21 12:43 AM.

Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.
Re: How do you know it's better
rrlev #443525 09/13/21 04:41 AM
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All these variables are what make this a great hobby or rather, lifestyle.

I totally agree with all the comments above.

But with anything that is considered subjective ( once we get past the initial and measurable science ) it all comes down to preference in the moment. There’s sooooo much more going on than just the measurable science. The vibrations for the woofers enter our ears and our brains react with chemicals and hormones / physiological responses that affect our whole body. Including memory and emotion. Amazing !!!

If I walk into an old barn or workshop and there’s country music playing quietly on an old single speaker on an AM radio station I go into full nostalgia of memory of my grandpa’s barn. It’s as emotional as a perfectly rendered symphony in a large space in full 24/192 on maybe the best system out here. Sometimes it’s quiet jazz in the dark with variable loudness engaged to allow fletcher munson curve work it’s magic. I guess that’s the beauty is that the music can transport us anywhere so to speak. So it’s subjective. I wouldn’t want to listen on a single AM band speaker all the time , I want it to be as close to the real thing as possible just like the next guy but it’s fun to be ok with it not being perfect. Sometime I play early 90’s rap and back the ports right up to the wall and drop the bass and treble knob both into the 5 o clock position, tint and boom! Just like my ridiculous truck that had dual subs back when I thought that was cool.

Anyway I guess we / I just need to define our goals and what is good for us and enjoy it. Sometimes it’s just the experience that is super fun.

I will admit though the most satisfying times I’ve had listening to music is definitely when the recording is superb and playing in a good quality system and the room is just working and I’m in the right emotional state and just smile and say out loud “ oh hell yeah !” And the goosebumps too!


M60ti Hafler9505 & JFET Pre,Axiom Transformer. M3 Marantz PM7200 Dual 606 Denon 2700 M2 Yammy RX595
1 member likes this: 2x6spds
Re: How do you know it's better
rrlev #443526 09/13/21 04:43 AM
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Oh Mr. Kodiak. How you've nailed it!

I can smell the rough hewn old barn wood smell and hear that AM country music.

At the other end of the matter, my Wilson Sabrina Xs have arrived, and are sitting in big boxes. One of my 2 BAT monoblocks has been repaired in Delaware, and, according to FedEx, is sitting in Chicago on its way to Orange County, California. Should be here on Wednesday. Mike Rose will come by on Friday (Thursday is Yom Kippur, no work, no eating, sorry thank You, thank You sorry) he will do the Wilson set up routine (it'll take a good 3-4 hours). I will then kick back, put the Analog Productions 2021 Ultra High Quality Recording Of Kind of Blue on the Woodpecker, and lift-off.

Of course, assuming the FedEx delivered box doesn't sound like broken chinaware when I move it.

Here's hoping.

Last edited by 2x6spds; 09/13/21 05:10 AM.

Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.
Re: How do you know it's better
rrlev #443527 09/13/21 05:09 AM
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Ha!! Glad you liked that. Not sure where those thoughts came from but that’s the heart of the matter for me anyway.

Don’t forget the old chisels left on the beaten up workbench The oaken handle, dark with years of sweat. The fractured metal top, with a tang of patina, cracked from years of peening.

Oh and it’s gotta be early 80s country playing as well.

Thanks for the compliment! I almost erased that post before sending it. Thought it was too cheesy.


M60ti Hafler9505 & JFET Pre,Axiom Transformer. M3 Marantz PM7200 Dual 606 Denon 2700 M2 Yammy RX595
1 member likes this: 2x6spds
Re: How do you know it's better
Kodiak #443528 09/13/21 05:11 AM
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Love cheesy! That was rich nostalgia, evocative, beautifully written. You got a fan.


Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.
1 member likes this: Kodiak

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