Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion The Water Cooler BRAVO CANADIAN TRUCKERS!

Good evening Mr. rrlev

Yup that's the rationale. I'd like to see a warp speed program for therapeutics, a serious look at Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine.

I don't think the vaccine, mask and social distancing mandates are mandates. They are dictates.

The CDC and NHI have lost credibility but have gained enormous power. A bureaucratic iron fist. Comply or be treated like a leper, lose your job, lose your educational opportunities, lose your ability to participate in social media, in society. This is highly offensive. It is totalitarian.

How effective are masks and social distancing? Trivial. Yet they are social signals - I am on the winning team, the good team. I comply with the dictates. I am better than the yahoo insurrectionists who refuse to comply. Sort of like an arm band. The most powerfully socially divisive movement in this country's recent history fostered by an unelected bureaucracy working with demagogues. The social costs have been weighed. While a free person may see the downside as a negative, others may see the downside as a positive.

Burn the witch.

Careful my friends. Things are changing fundamentally and not for the better.

No dictates! Individual liberty. Freedom.

2x I’m not sure what you’re trying to say.

Come on Mr. rrlev

You are a top percentile player. Kindly be a bit more specific. Engage!

Im willing to engage you on all those topics but one at a time. It’s a ploy and fools game when one is taking about a specific topic an the response form the debating opponent introduces ten other topics to confuse the issue. It’s even worse when all the introduced topics are just FUD. 2x, your too smart not to know that.

2x6, you continue to pick at the vaccine development process, mostly with seeming peripheral or partial facts. For instance, (1) I've provided a link that explains that there are six types of vaccines and only two of them uses dead/live-attenuated, but you keep using those types as a major point. If I'm missing why that's important you'll have to be more specific. (2) They've been researching mrna for 50 years (since the 70s, with over 20 years of experimental research. But you repeatedly say that it's hasn't been studied. This is the first major rollout, but it's not new.
In any case, the overwhelming majority of the scientific community does not agree with the arguments you're making, so I'm going to stop with that topic.

I'll go in another direction. The planet has almost 8 billion people. I believe we're past the point where everyone can act in isolation. It appears your philosophy is a survival of the fittest/luckiest. That in the name of freedom people should be allowed to put millions of lives at risk with a high statistical certainty (high certainty/high death) because of a small statistical chance that a small sample has an adverse reaction (low certainty/low death). That seems morally wrong to me.

Honestly, this talk about liberty and freedom and I'll do as I please stuff is all for the birds.
Gee, I want to drive at 150 mph and it's my right too, correct? NO, you are a hazard to everyone around you!
And you don't want the government to mandate that you get vaccinated? Well then; don't join a military unit!
My guess is that 2X has never served in any military unit, but screams about freedom and liberty; do as some of us have done, join voluntarily a military or paramilitary unit and put your efforts where they mean something. It's one for all and all for one; something the insurrectionists surely do not understand in the least as they hit cops with hockey sticks and pointed flag poles sporting Blue Lives Matter flags and even worse, the American Flag!
What a bunch of hypocrites.
You don't wish to be told to vaccinate? Too bad; if we are to save some people from this disease and stop it from mutating, everyone needs to be vaccinated, just like they did with Polio, small pox, tetanus and many others. This antivax crap is nothing more than a political statement from those who don't want to be team players. The same group who is cries about rigged elections because they are a bunch of sore losers. Too bad, you all lost plain and simple. Now they are trying to take the ball away because they cannot win otherwise.

My good friend and ski partner refuses to get vaccinated because he thinks everything is all fake news (he gets all of his news from social media, not real media). I am 3V Moderna and after skiing with this guy all winter and riding the chairlifts with him, I didn't get a thing when he came down with Covid three weeks ago.
He is sick, and still fighting it; but thinks he's now safe with natural immunity! He has no energy, difficulty breathing and other issues. I told him that a needle prick would have not cost him two weeks of missing the best snow in years!

Hello rrlev

Let's do them one at a time. And, BTW, I do believe in what I've said.

Hello Slimpickens. We're not talking about military discipline or chain of command. Civilians are not subject to taking orders, we are enjoined to follow the law. So is our government.

Driving is a privilege. Yes, I have never driven at 150mph. That would be illegal on a public road. Your liberty is not a privilege.

I'm sorry about your ski friend. I weighed the risks v. benefits and decided to take the Pfeizer 2 shot, not the booster. Freedom of choice. I have a friend who did not vaccinate, he has had Covid 3 times, the original, delta and omicron. Omicron was fairly mild for him, the first 2 were extremely unpleasant. Thankfully, he does not seem to have suffered any lingering after effects. It is not clear he benefitted from any natural immunity, although studies (even CDC) concluded that natural immunity is between 2 and 27 times more protective than vaccination.

I have other friends who (I believe) were triple vaccinated (definitely double vaccinated - Pfeizer) who got Covid during the delta period. None died, all got very sick. I also know 2 people who immediately, upon becoming symptomatic, had the cocktail infusion. They were asymptomatic in about 1 day! If, God forbid, I get Covid, I'm getting the cocktail!

This disease is a curse. Vaccination does not appear to provide much protection against infection or transmission. It seems to protect against severe symptoms. Again, there are no studies of the long term effects of vaccination. That's why, IMO, vaccination should be a matter of personal choice, not state dictates.

If you want to see how dictates can go seriously wrong, take a look at Australia, a once free country now subject to a biomedical/political tyranny. No longer free!

Take a look at the swine flu vaccine debacle. While there was only the single U.S. death from the 1976 swine flu, 32 Americans died from complications related to the vaccine, in addition, many suffered permanent neurological impairment.

Guard your liberty. Take the vaccine if you want. The government should not be permitted to dictate that everyone take the vaccine.

Bravo to the Canadian truckers for standing up for liberty. I'm sure they are sorry for any inconvenience.

If it has whisky in it I'm in!!

Ok 2x, lets debate the mandate on Covid first: We'll explore each of your points. May have to do it several posts mainly because of time.
Anyway here's what I think your points are:

1) I'd like to see a warp speed program for therapeutics, a serious look at Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine.
2) I don't think the vaccine, mask and social distancing mandates are mandates. They are dictates.
3) Effectiveness of masks and social distancing and why should they be enforced.
4) the CDC and NHI have lost credibility but have gained enormous power ... It is totalitarian. Comply or else.
4a) fakes like Fauci & Collins
5) "freedom" of choice and weighing social cost.

The rest of that post seems to be on other topics:
I'm sure your pointing your finger at someone but I'm just not sure who ... if it's the Fauci, CDC and NHI then it will be covered in #4. If it's something like those damn democrats well that's an interesting topic in itself.

I agree with this but probably not in the way you were intending. I believe that we may lose our democracy. Mainly because the GOP has been hijacked/influenced by people who value personal short term gains (money/power) over the long term health of our country. It's very scary.

Think this is your overall point: Small government with Individual liberty ("freedom" to do as you wish) over Big government dictating stuff. If that's the case it might be interesting to explore why and how we got here ...


and let's not forget:
which at first glance seems to be arguing that the liberties of one group should be allowed to step on the liberties of an other group
But having only cursory knowledge on this one means I'd need to look into it further to have a reasonable discussion.

Poor Australia, unbeknownst to them, they apparently are not aware of the fact that they have been subject to "biomedical/political tyranny and no longer free". When Rick DeSantis, the "brain dead" governor of Florida in late Sept./21 made similar comments about Australia, twitter lit up and a considerable number of Australians had a good laugh about that and kept commenting how they kept looking out the window for all the soldiers and tanks in the streets but couldn't find any. Of course, just recently, DeSantis strangely disappeared for two weeks then all of a sudden, of course, with no masks on, showed up at a concert with his wife whom the day before had just received a cancer treatment.

Speaking of Australia and Florida, let's cherry pick some numbers that are real facts. (Numbers are rounded off).

Australia
Pop. 29 MILLION
Percentage vaccinated age 5 and up - 84.5%(about the same as Canada)
Total reported numbers of cases to date - 2.7 MILLION
Total reported deaths - 4200

Florida
Pop. 26 MILLION
Percentage vaccinated 5 and up 64.5%
Total "reported" cases to date 5.7 MILLION
Total reported deaths to date - 66,000
(It should be noted that the Florida government has been known to under report their numbers so these are probably artificially low).

It seems with all that tyranny and being no longer free, if Australia took the same approach as Florida who banned mask and other mandates, they would have had potentially another 62,000 or so dead Australians.