Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater AT screen how to for existing/impossible walls

During a recent new home build, we were asked to install a system in a multipurpose room. The customer was already familiar with our work, and had experienced another install we completed using Axiom M80s. Based on this, clients criteria were:

-ability to play loud when called upon
-ability to have a large screen
-clean install with minimal items and clutter in the room

After some consultations, the decision was to go with Axiom on wall speakers with an in wall EP500 subwoofer. To hide the LCR channels, we opted for a 150” AT screen. To give the output required we went with OWM5s with a seperate outboard amplifier.

There was no option to build a false wall. The existing wall was ICF construction, so no clever way to use inwalls behind screen. Budget was of course important, as the customer did not want to spend money on items not directly related to their three goals above.

We went with a rail mounted screen aproach, where it would float in front of the OWM5s. The outcome was better than anticipated, as the picture floated off the front wall. This idea could be paired with bias lighting, though it wasnt requested for this setup.

We used finger jointed 5” (4.5” actual) pine jamb boards to take screws better and resist warping over time. We used 75lb rated EZ anchors to mount the L bracets and M5 T posts to the ICF wall. RTV silicone was used as well on the T posts to cement each to the wall surface as a backup. Screws into boards were pre-drilled, and a line level laser used. Pretty much mandatory for this work.

Hope this helps others consider an AT screen solution for their setups. Speaker grilles were removed prior to screen install.

Rails:


Finished:

Nice install.

Seriously, looks great.

Thanks. Room turned out great! Waiting on finish now when throw rug and furniture are in.

For anyone on the fence I can fully vouch for the OWM5s and the inwall/cabinet EP500. Solid performers for even big rooms. This one was 22x26x10. Plan for a shelf or deep rack for the EP500 amplifier. Wouldnt fit in this one. Had to improvise….

Here is the EP500 before paint.


Back side of sub through mechanical room wall. This room was a disaster outside of frame. Trade storage…


And behind the curtain.

Very nice!

I'm curious, why did you opt for on-walls instead of in-walls?

I'm surprised someone would want that nice a set-up and not want at least side surrounds.

Also, the first picture looks like the L/R are going to be outside the screen, but in the second picture it looks like the screen covers them. Please keep me for questioning my sanity and explain that optical illusion.

On-walls sound better than in-wall … It’s MO … don’t even think it’s a close call …
The bracket Trevor made is just to hold the screens mid section. The screen is wide enough to cover the M5’s

Yep, the overall screen width was 133” or so. The jamb stock was 96” or 8’ off the rack. Screen weight was about 25lbs. The rigid aluminum frame allowed the screen to be mounted like this. Pretty sure all quality screens would be similarly robust at this size.

The setup is full Atmos. 7.1.4. Roughin for future 2nd sub was done, but not decided yet. They are going to wait until they live there and furnish. Honeslty, one EP500 sub mid wall does great.

Wide angle shot of room. Looks like a dance floor, eh?

Interesting. I've never done any serious theater construction. Running wires and screwing in Axiom's mounts are the extent of my hands-on experience.

I didn't know that about in-wall vs on-wall, thanks rrlev.

As for the client's home project, I probably would have gone with the upgraded seating package; but I admire sticking to a budget.

The IWM3s are very efficent to drive. Great choice for small rooms and lower powered amps.

The OWM5s like power. With external or beefy amps they can do the job in big rooms. Impressive for their size.

The inwalls hit their limits sooner than onwalls. Both are great choices depending on goals and size of spaces.

Trevor, seems you feel that the in-walls sound similar to the on-walls at reasonable volume …
Just wondering if I should get the pair of iwM3s I’ve stored away and listen to them again …

Yes, 100%. I would never deter anyone from the inwalls. They have the same character, just cant play as low or loud. The OWM3s definitely have more grunt, but I wouldnt say the IWM3s are a compromise. With a sub its pretty much a dead heat I would say. No sub? OW gets the nod for sure. Over an ATMOS system you are really going to notice increased dynamics with OWs. Dont listen loud? Wont matter as much.

Just a different tool for different goals. Smaller rooms kind of demand in wall speakers. Way prefer the onwalls in terms of install ease/time -especially in retrofits.

I havent compared IWM3s with OWM5s in the same room. But, Ive done IW-M3s/M5s and OW-M3s/M5s in same systems and they integrate very well.

Did you invert the m5s?

Ok, I’ll give them another listen … be a while though … too many things pulling in too many directions …

No, the M5s were not invertred in this install. Distance to listener was 15’ or so. Non issue.

In another room we chose to invert the surround M5IW. They were 8’ to listener.

In my room with M5OW we inverted at 7’ to listener.

Keep vertical angle to tweeter +/- 10 degrees if possible we found from measurements. If not possible better to be above tweeter axis. Ie. place them lower than listener or invert if higher.

Hooked up the M5OWs again as front L/R. Ran them off of my AVR, didn't have time to disconnect everything from the 1500. I had forgotten how good they sound. The soundstage and imaging is impressive. I had the tweeters 2º above my ears at 16.5 feet. At the listening position they had plenty of oomph but trailed off fast beyond the MLP. Probably will have a little more SPL once I hook them up to the 1500 and try again. They completely disappear which is an added bonus. You could not tell where the sound was coming from. I may try to drop the tweeters below ear level but I'll have to move my 600 out of the way on the left side.

I'm really curious to hear if dropping the OW below ear level makes a difference for you.

I didn’t realize just how big a 600 was till I got one. When planning the HT I had all except the one under the screen standing up. Now 3 of the 4 are on their side.

I'm going to end up putting mine on its side too. They need to offer a horizontal version like the do with the 800.

They gave me that option when I bought them ... you just have to ask.

In hindsight I'd go with 4 EP500 and place a Tactile Transducer in the front seats.
The 500 plays low enough that you're not going to hear the difference and its much easier to place.
The only thing I think you'd be giving up is the feel ... hence the Tactile Transducers.

I hear nuances with the 600s that I don't with 500s. Canes, if you don't believe me, get a 500 and try it out against a 600.

The 500s double as seats though or as supports for benches so they've got that going for them.

I had the 500 to start and it just couldn't fill my room by itself. The 600 was a huge improvement and it gets loud. I'll eventually have dual 600s down there if the wife doesn't kill me first.

Hi @TrevorM

Thanks for sharing the pictures. The home theater looks awesome. I am looking to build something similar. I have 158inch acoustic transparent screen (144 inch width and 69 inches height) in 16 feet by 21 feet room (with 9 foot ceiling). I would like to know the speaker placements for the ONM5HP speakers. What should be the tweeter height and how far should it be from the left and right walls. I have a single row of seats so is 32inch tweeter height optimal height for the tweeter ? The screen has 4 inch frame and I was thinking of having all three LCR behind the screen. How much gap should exist between the speaker and the screen ? Is 1/2 inch to 1inch sufficient or do we need more space between the speaker and screen. Also how far should I place the left and right speaker from the wall. Since the screen is 12 feet wide and the screen has 4 inch frame. You mentioned about some room mode avoidance ratios identified by Grimani. So can you share the #s that would work for my room in private message or here. I was thinking some thing along the lines of (half the speaker width)11.5/2+24 (distance from the screen from side walls) + 5 (width of the frame + one inch clearance ) = 34.75. I already have polk monitor 70 series II and polk monitor 40 speakers so I am planning on using them for the surround duties. Any recommendations on speaker placements is also helpful. Would you recommend the same ONM5HP for surround speakers or is it best to use smaller ONM3 speakers ? Thanks in advance.

Hi Chiru.

If you want send me a pm with your email, real first name, and exact room dimensions including your door location. I will give you a floorplan with measurements when I can get to it. Maybe this weekend. With this help we would have an understanding that you would be purchasing Axiom products to complete your build if required, and share results in your own thread here. Deal?

After I give you the initial floorplan you can share it, post for feedback or do as you want. I just dont have time to design via forum back and forth these days.

I’m pretty sure I couldn’t.

What source material are you using?
How do you know which is more accurate v.s. a preference?

I’m surprised it made that big of a difference… I thought it went lower but not much louder (at least spec wise …).

My first reaction for a big room would be to add more subs and spread out the sources…

I was a little astonished too but the 500 no matter where I moved it or how loud I turned it up it just didn't match what the 600 ended up putting out. Possibly having multiple 500s would be sufficient but with just a single sub it was lacking.

I am less of an old fart than you.

It's the difference between 12Hz vs. 20Hz on the low end. The 600 and 800 put out growls, articulation and LFE that the 500 cannot. Is that accurate or not? I don't know. I know only of emotion. Similar to tubes, vinyl and M3s I suppose. Those are not accurate but they sure sound nice too.

For a dual sub setup does the $1200 dollars saved buying dual EP500s instead of 600s and upgrading all other channels make more sense? I vote yes. I steer builds this way. Placing subs properly and time aligning can increase output SUBstantially..

Sub 20hz material is fun! No doubt! But I’d rather grin all the time than grin and chuckle 5% of the time. I love power of upperbass. Shudder of sub 20hz can be terrifying though. Hmmmm….

So if you can afford em. Hell yeah!

Fwiw, I have 4x EP500s in a sealed 2400 cu.ft. room at home. EP500s are my go to for installs. Perfect blend of smallish footprint and freakish output.

I am less of an old fart than you. [/quote]
I resemble that fact!

I’m assuming you have experienced a tactile transducer but If you haven’t you need to. Need a good one (not a shaker).
If you can find one try a Clark Synthesis TST429 Platinum Transducer or TST329 Gold Transducer …
Setup right will have you jumping out of your seat!

Have you ever considered a sub for each channel and something like a 600 dedicated purely to LFE?

Not really. I just dont have the space to land subs around the room. The way my room is doesnt sound like there are subs in it. They are not localizable and have no overhang. Is that what youre going for?

I can't locate any either. Every one of the 73 sub topologies I've tried sound similarly good.

How is the experience changed with directional low bass?

It's like going from QS8 to QS10...only BIGGER!