Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 3 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
Re: NRC data show Energy & Paradigm better than Axiom
#47169 05/29/04 03:08 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,951
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,951
Call me conspiracy minded, but doesn't it seem like there are folks out there with an ax to grind for Axiom?

Could it be due to the candor with which Alan and others have dismissed so many audio myths (exotic cables, high dollar amps, etc...)? Are some people afraid sales of their snake-oil products are going to slip if the truth spreads?



Re: NRC data show Energy & Paradigm better than Axiom
#47170 05/29/04 03:41 PM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 958
M
mwc Offline
aficionado
Offline
aficionado
M
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 958
In reply to:

Could it be due to the candor with which Alan and others have dismissed so many audio myths (exotic cables, high dollar amps, etc...)



And lets not forget to add one of the most prolific audio myths- "break-in".


I live the life I love and I love the life I live.
Re: NRC data show Energy & Paradigm better than Axiom
#47171 05/31/04 05:04 AM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 19
J
jbmjr Offline OP
frequent flier
OP Offline
frequent flier
J
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 19
In response to:

I mean, why are you so much more fixated on graphs than on the listening experience?


NRC data are extremely important to me because they represent OBJECTIVE information, which together with subjective listening tests, will guide my buying decision. I will buy speakers which have great objective NRC data AND which sound great(in my subjective opinion)on listening tests. I do not trust my ears 100% though (Who does?), so the NRC data will confirm what my ears are hearing.

Re: NRC data show Energy & Paradigm better than Axiom
#47172 05/31/04 06:50 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,703
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,703
In reply to:


I do not trust my ears 100% though (Who does?), so the NRC data will confirm what my ears are hearing.




hmmm, at first I read that and thought OMG! FLAME ON!... but I guess I understand what you are saying, to a point. But ya have to realize that really the only thing that truely matters is what YOUR ears DO hear. Listening to music or movies doesn't have to be some chemistry experiment (where things are perfect), its entertainment (where things are subjective)!


Re: NRC data show Energy & Paradigm better than Axiom
#47173 05/31/04 12:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,459
Likes: 6
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,459
Likes: 6
You make excellent points!

It struck me that within this board we tell people to trust their own listening, deride them for doing this - especially if you feel something is better (ie. amps, cd players) tout NRC input (Axiom design), dismiss NRC data (this thread)......

I started in this hobby for one reason - MUSIC. I think we get caught up in equipment, and forget that the music, movies, etc are what we enjoy. I realize that some people are in the arena for other reasons, but the music is key to most.

Regards,

BBIBH

Re: NRC data show Energy & Paradigm better than Axiom
#47174 05/31/04 01:18 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 418
devotee
Offline
devotee
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 418
There is one drawback to using the NRC charts to decide on speakers. There isn't anyone in the world that can point to a chart, and say "Everyone who listens to this set of speakers will like them (or hate them)". There just flat out isn't anyone who can do interpret the charts like that. If the chart is all over the place then most people probably will not like the speaker. People's tastes vary so much, that I'm sure a lot of people prefer the speakers with the worst chart.

I can't tell anything about which of the speakers in that list that I would like the best based on the charts. If I were buying right now, the charts would not be able to help me decide.

I don't care what the M60 chart looks like, I like the sound. Maybe it's a good thing there isn't an M60 chart on that page. I might read it and see some nasty hump, then stop liking them. (I'm not being a smartypants here - If If I saw a nasty chart on them, it would bug me forever. i'de be trying to hear it, instead of listening to the source from then on. Some things are better left alone.)


M- M60s/VP150/QS8s/SVS PC-Ultra/HK630 Sit down. Shut up. Listen.
Re: NRC data show Energy & Paradigm better than Axiom
#47175 05/31/04 02:47 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,951
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,951
I have M60s and I'd bet that no hump exists. If anything there would probably be a lack of dbs in the low frequencies.

Re: NRC data show Energy & Paradigm better than Axiom
#47176 05/31/04 03:28 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,041
connoisseur
Offline
connoisseur
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,041
One of the best sounding speakers (touted by lots of audio affectionados) ...
http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeakerreviews/595/index.html
This is its response curve...
http://www.stereophile.com/images/archivesart/Mag16fig2.jpg

Another of the best sounding speakers in the world...
http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeakerreviews/920/index.html
This is its response curve...
http://www.stereophile.com/images/archivesart/WILFIG5.jpg

Neither are flat.


Re: NRC data show Energy & Paradigm better than Ax
#47177 05/31/04 03:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 149
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 149
Only problem with the Maggie measurements is that planars are notoriously hard to measure, particularly with regard to the integration of the backwave. In this case you are comparing apples to oranges.

In addition, the beauty of the NRC measurements is that they're done in an anechoic chamber and measured in a similar way. You can't really compare the Stereophile measurements, as they're done in a living room using MLSSA. So again it's apples to oranges.

Re: NRC data show Energy & Paradigm better than Ax
#47178 05/31/04 03:36 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,745
Likes: 17
axiomite
Offline
axiomite
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,745
Likes: 17
BBIBH,

In reply to:

It struck me that within this board we tell people to trust their own listening, deride them for doing this - especially if you feel something is better (ie. amps, cd players) tout NRC input (Axiom design), dismiss NRC data (this thread)......



What exactly did you expect from a large and varying array of personalities on a public chat board?
Unanimous thoughts?

I think many here do not promote using only one or the other (ears or science data) as the sole source for information. If that is the perception by some, then they need to work on their character judgement skills.

Data can be corroborated by human listening tests and vice versa. This is what Axiom tries to do in their in-house tests and it is a philosophy that many agree with because it makes sense. They have tried to match up these NRC response graphs with what their testers have found to be a more pleasing sound. In most cases, and Alan has said this before, listeners tend to prefer a flat response curve from loudspeakers so Axiom tries to design such a speaker accordingly.
Someone looking for a speaker with bass oomph may look for NRC graphs that have an exaggerated bass hump. Good for them. They are trying to match up what they like to hear with what the science measurements as starting points. As long as they understand the material, then their approach to finding good sound is just as valid as the next guy except they have extra information the "purely by ear" person does not.

Just listening to music is NOT always the only key to most people. Many like to extend their enjoyment with the audio hobby to a deeper level by learning about the technical side of things, probably more than you think.
Some ppl like to listen to music, some ppl like to watch movies, some like to build audio components, some just like to collect vintage equipment (without intentions of even using it) or all of the above, or combinations of some of the above.
To each his own.



"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
Page 3 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6

Moderated by  alan, Amie, Andrew, axiomadmin, Brent, Debbie, Ian, Jc 

Link Copied to Clipboard

Need Help Graphic

Forum Statistics
Forums16
Topics24,940
Posts442,457
Members15,616
Most Online2,082
Jan 22nd, 2020
Top Posters
Ken.C 18,044
pmbuko 16,441
SirQuack 13,840
CV 12,077
MarkSJohnson 11,458
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 145 guests, and 4 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newsletter Signup
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4