Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo M50 vs. M22 comparison

This evening, Peter and Adam (pmbuko & adamp88) came over to my place to compare Peter's M22's and my M50s.

The M50s were wired to the main jacks on my H/K 525, while the M22s were wired to the Multiroom speaker jacks. Switching between the two was a pain, requiring 4 button presses (minimum), but we finally figured it out. The subwoofer was not used at all in teh testing, due to the difficulty of melding it with both speakers, and the fact that you can't set the sub to play with Multiroom.

We listened to a variety of music, including Rush, Alison Krause, Metallica, Alice in Chains, Bela Fleck, Buena Vista Social Club, some Gregorian chant that I don't remember the name of, and probably some other stuff I don't remember right now.

General impressions:
M22s=more airy, broader soundstage
M50s=fuller, "fatter" sound
Both speakers are excellent.
Unless you switch in the middle of the song, the two can sound very similar. If you do switch quickly in the middle, then they sound extremely different for a few seconds, then the difference seems less dramatic.
Played together, they sound really good!

More detailed stuff:
No, I didn't take notes...
It is a very broad generalization to say that the more electric/electronic instruments playing, the more that we preferred the M50s. The M22s were more detailed, but sometimes this could play against them (as usual, if the recording was bright, the M22s were less preferred.) This was especially dramatic on Dust for Life, where the M22s were veyr close to painful. However, Ozzy Osbourne-Blizzard of Ozz was better on the M22s. The Gregorian chant was better on the M22s by virtue of their wider soundstage. However, I think some of this may be remedied by placement on the M50s, which are probably not optimal. The M22s have AMAZING bass for their size. However, the M50's bass is extremely prodigious. In general, we preferred male voices on the M50s, except for Ozzy. I felt that female voices were better on the M50s most of the time, but I'm also biased.

Conclusion:
The speakers are more different than some have said, but also less different than others have said. (helpful, ain't I?) Actually, this was pretty much how the comparison went, with each of us noting good things about both speakers. It is probably impossible to pick a winner.

Especial thanks to my lovely wife, who put up with loud music for the last 4 hours, and made a fantastic peach cobbler.

I just finished putting my M22s back in their places and am now ready to do a massive brain dump. The M22 and M50 showdown was not as conclusive as I thought it might be. Ken did a good of describing the setup, but he forgot to mention that we level-matched the two pairs of speakers with an SPL meter prior to doing our in-depth listening. We also had the speakers stacked atop one another with the front baffles lined up. My M22s were upside-down so that the tweeters were at similar levels.

In general, I found the M22s to be more articulate/airy/detailed in the high-end than the M50s, expecially with well-mastered instrumental/acoustic material. Buena Vista Social Club was the best example of this. While doing a switch from the M22s to the M50s while the music was playing, it was immediately obvious that a fine level of detail was no longer resolving as clearly. The soundstage also seemed to suffer slightly. I described my impression to Ken as a series of concentric rings, where the further out you get from the center, the wider the soundstage and the more detailed the sound. Switching from the M22 to the M50 was like removing the outermost circle or two. In all fairness in regards to soundstage, the M22s seem to be much easier to place than the M50s.

Also in general, I found the M50s to have a fuller/broader sound, cleary due to their ability to produce a great amount of tight bass. I have a feeling the bass could improve further with some positioning tweaks, but as they were the bass was never boomy.

An area where the M50s were clearly preferable to the M22s was with older recordings and more poorly mastered material. Dust for Life a rock band bordering on metal (at times). Their debut album is mastered pretty hot, and it was quite harsh on the M22s. Switching to the M50s tamed down the brightness to a very listenable level. Switching back to the M22s was like hearing nails on a chalkboard. Perhaps this is the sort of stuff people listen to when they label the m22s as metallic?

What I need to stress is that I really enjoyed both speakers greatly, even though the differences between the two became more and more apparent as the listening session went on. It was refreshing hearing two different interpretations of the same music. Often we would switch back and forth unable to pick a favorite. It's also important to note that the differences between the two speakers would fade the longer we listed without switching between them -- psychoacoustics at work!

So, was there a clear winner? I left with my speakers, and Ken kept his. Neither of us seems to be jealous of the other's speakers. And that's a good thing. I think I speak for both of us when I say that upgraditis is not something I need right now.

Oh, and that cobbler/bread pudding was excellent!

Okay, Ken, we read your review with interest, but what many will want to know is if Peter was able to resist fooling around with the M50 gorilla ports; or was Jen watching him too closely?

Hell, I was watching him too closely for that. Jen was retreating from the loud noise into the other room...

Adam, you're up...

{edit} oh yeah, it was bread pudding. Dur.

I did discover that the vortex ports on the M22s double as very convenient carrying handles. Thumb goes on top of the speaker, and the rest of your fingers go in the port. It makes for a very secure grip.

Alrighty, time for me to give this a shot. Both Peter and Ken put down their thoughts quite well, so I'll just add a few comments.

I think the consensus we all came away with is that there is no clear winner between the two speakers. As Ken and Peter said, on some material we preferred the M22s, on some the M50s. On some tracks (Alison Krauss), we clearly preferred the vocals on the M50s, but then on others (Ozzy & Alice In Chains) we preferred the M22s. On more instrumental tracks, it was much harder to pick out differences (besides bass, of course). In fact, I walked out of the room to take a quick bathroom break, and when I came back in I assumed the M50s were playing because I heard some nice bass coming out - but it was the M22s (goes to show you how accurate memory can be!). Overall the M22's had more precise imaging and a wider soundstage, but the differences were hardly dramatic.

That said, I get the feeling that with the inclusion of a subwoofer I might prefer the M22s overall for there more precise and wider soundstage, and the overall airyness (new word!). In this setup they were obviously lacking bass and were missing quite a lot of the low material that the M50s covered with ease (easily apparent on the Rush drum solo). At home with the SVS I don't find myself wanting anything more from the sound (other than maybe a tiny bit more midrange warmth). Maybe we should do a second round down the road where we compare the two with a sub - if we can somehow rig it together. I get the feeling that the tracks where the M22 sounded a bit thin or bright might come across differently if there was a sub filling in the lower end for it.

Anyway, both are fine speakers. I'd actually really like to hear the M60s now, as I think my ideal speaker might be somewhere in between the M50 and M22, and the M60 might be close to (or better than) that speaker. Although, as Ken noted when Peter set up the M22s on the M50s, we had the same driver complement as an M80, for $100 less than the real deal.

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However, the M50's bass is extremely prodigious.

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Prod - what?

Bren R.

hey ya'll, thanks for the review.. its obvious you guys aint professionals or nothing, but a good review none the less.

it still surprises me everytime when i read that the M22's can stand up to the tower spoeakers(in performance). i just always assumed that the 'tower' design was superior, and that no 'bookshelf' could ever come close to producing the same/better sound as a tower..

and it was good to see that both parties went away feeling good about their speaker choice, and with full bellies. sounds like a good night to me.

bigjohn

This sounds a lot like the way the M3's and M22's compare (Except for more difficult placement).

Owning both I find this :

The M3's are ever so slightly tipped up in bass and the M22's are just a bit more airy and open with some of the best midrange and treble this side of $2-3000 .

With a good sub .... the M22's are simply amazing .

The M3's are fantastic (and less needy of a sub)

The bottom line is they are all VERY good speakers indeed .

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I think my ideal speaker might be somewhere in between the M50 and M22, and the M60 might be close to (or better than) that speaker.

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Dang! I was just thinking that I wished you guys had the 60s in the mix about 1 post before you said that.

Whew! I'm happy to report that the soundstage of the M50s improves to a large degree when the speakers are separated more than I had them. Listening to Buena Vista Social Club right now, and it's incredible. I feel better! They may not be as good as the M22s for soundstage right now, but I think they're probably a lot closer!

OK, here's some pics. This is not the final arrangement of stuff; I'll probably change things around this weekend.

Yes, that is the long rumored and stressed over entertainment center that I built.


{edit} You know, I just realized that it would probably be helpful to have a link in this post somewhere...

(bites tounge on the built with a mac website )

hehe, nice job on the entertainment center thou! Thought the *review* was informative as well, thx guys~

I suppose "built" is too strong a word. "Uploaded" perhaps... But hey, it's webspace.

Thanks!

Love those M72s Ken, I'm sure that this'll have Ian scrambling to the drawing board. Also, I see from the wedding picture that it isn't that you're short, but that Peter's really tall.

Yeah, I'm 5'10"-5'11" or so...

K, looks great, nice carpentry work. i see the hanging pictures suffer from a sub and loud musice at your place like they do at mine. i'm forever trying to level them. guess i don't know the trick, two or three days later i need to level again. bet it was a fun time.
dan

Keeping pictures level and items hung on the wall from vibrating from sub and music levels is as easy as the application of a bit of time and Quake Secure (or Quake Hold).

Cream colored sticky adhesive putty that will fix items in place and prevent them from moving. Similar to the Blue Tack you can find at Home Depot / Lowes but considerably more adhesive and does not leave residue.

I use it on the cross wall my wife has displayed, otherwise we get a cacophany of buzzing along with the movie or music.

Do a search for Quake Secure or Quake Hold via Google...

Keep those pictures straight Man!

WhatFurrer

BTW, is that an actual working Atari or Activision game system I see included in your entertainment center?

WhatFurrer

Looks very nice! Plenty of breathing space for your receiver (something the makers of many racks overlook). I think I have the same Toshiba DVD player.

That is an Atari 2600. I should really dig it out again... Last year I decided to grab a bit of nostalgia off of eBay. Now I'm toying with the idea of getting a 5200 or a 7800. Anybody got preferences?

On the pictures, I think that's an artifact from the camera. Jen commented on that last night. When I looked at the wall, the pictures are straight, so I'm not sure what happened. If you look at the last picture, you can see that the top of the right M50 is more visible than the left. I must have moved when I was taking the picture or something.

Thanks for the compliments on the entertainment center. I'll try to grab a few more pics of it with less junk (cds, Netflix, etc.) all over it.

The magic of DIY + a whole lot of holes for the shelf supports...

I'm thinking about opening up the back of the receiver side a bit more, because although there's sufficient room for cooling, I didn't account for hhow much the cables have to turn. And lemme tell you, 4x14 gauge cables don't like turning much in small spaces... Believe it or not, the TiVo produces almost as much heat as the receiver, so that's why it's in the extremely large space on the right (and sitting on 4 unused/broken/sucky Atari cartridges)

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Now I'm toying with the idea of getting a 5200 or a 7800. Anybody got preferences?

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5200 - at least it had some games produced for it.

Bren R.

Ken have you experimented with speaker toe in? I think my M50s sound better with some toe in. I have them set so the outside sides are about parallel to the walls.

I've tried it, and I'm having trouble deciding which way I like them. I settled on no toe in yesterday, but I'm certainly willing to experiment!

I liked teh 7800 myself

And ya, I got a ReplayTV, its also gets REALLY hot.

It seems to me it takes awhile to determine what sounds better. Listening to a variety of music at different times & volumes.

My brother-in-law is a long time quasi low budget audiohpile. Meaning a $10,000 system instead of $30,000. Unbeleivable sound. He spent a lot of time moving his 200 pound Dunlavy towers a half an inch this way and that, marking positions with masking tape on the floor and then listening and measuring.

Listening at his place is what got us interested in hifi. It completely changed my experience of what music can be. It showed me how important positioning can be. Difficult too, when your room is used for other purposes. He puts nothing into a visually attractive setup, its all about the sound.

I'll be interested in hearing about your experiences over time.

Whew! - I'm normal.

I was getting a complex because my M60s haven't sat in the same spot for more than a few days at a time since I got them. My friends are giving me a hard time about moving them now. Hehe... they just don't get it.

Adding to Ken's note. I just increased the distance between the 60s from 9 feet to 11', and started trying various toe angles. The soundstage and image now fills the entire front wall of the room. Much better than it was before.

My right speaker has more toe in right now than the left one bacause it has to direct sound away from the end of a couch, towards the center of the room. I thought that non symetrical toe in would be bad. As far as I can tell there aren't any problems with it.

I'm surprised I'm the first to bring this up. I question the decision to stack the M22's upside down on top of the M50. That drastically raises the soundstage to a level that is not considered normal. For a better comparison I'd think that the M22's mounted on stands either to the left or right of the M50's so they were the same distance apart would have been a better setup. This would have replicated a more even soundstage height. I'm no expert but I'd think that the M22's would have sounded a lot different if set up close to the same height as the M50's.

It sounds like you guys had a good time anyway. Instead of music, next time try some movies. I understand this will make the A-B setup more difficult.

-Tom

OK, here's the skinny. Neither of us have stands, so we decided it would be best to try and get the tweeters at the same height, hence the weird setup. We did hear a positional change, but since the soundstage on the M22s was excellent, I think things were ok. On the movies, well, no surround sound, so what's the point?

The reason we did it this way is because we did not have stands. At home, I have my M22s directly on a credenza-style entertainment center, so I had no stands to bring. Also, since the tweeter/treble carries the most localization information, we felt stacking them the way we did was the best way to do an even comparison. Sure, it's not a scientifically perfect comparison. As Ken posted in a follow-up, he discovered that the M50's position in the room was less than ideal during our comparison.

We were aware of the difference in vertical position, so we pretty much ignored the height aspect. Our conclusion that the M22 create a better soundstage was based on the width of the soundstage we experienced, not the height.

Here's a slightly updated site at a different address. Just a couple new pics of the entertainment center.