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Paul M. Johnson
#49825 06/19/04 07:21 AM
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Way Way of topic,

PAUL M. JOHNSON, native son of New Jersey, USA. As you know this American has been slaughtered this day. Apparently it does not matter that you are an AMERICAN or of WESTERN CULTURE, if you are there trying to help these people you will be slaughtered like a pig. I for one have had it with this BULL SHEIT (if this offends you, grow up, that's to bad), yes I am former military, and proud of it. It does not matter where you hail from, if you do not agree with their agenda, these animals want to kill you, American, Canadian, British, South American, Australian, African, it does not matter. If you do not agree with their way of life you are a dead man or stonned women.

I know there are those of you who would politicize this but this is not the time for politics it is a time for action. The world is rich in natural resources; WE do not have to depend on Eastern Resources for our energy needs. They can eat sand and drink camel urine.

Look at this way, if these people were in control, ask yourself this question. Would we be having this conversation? I don't think so. Would you have the creature comforts that you have now? I DON'T THINK SO. Would you have your AXIOM system bolstered with ROTEL, ADCOM, OUTLAW audio equipment, spewing out your favorite artist! I DON'T THINK SO! You would be forced to praying on your knees to a god who condones beheading.

If you would like to take a back seat to all that is happening in the world, I would like to suggest several things. GET A LIFE, GET REAL, FIGHT BACK, then again if you can't handle it, you are a spineless worthless piece of sheit.

CAV104 / JIM




Last edited by CAV104; 06/19/04 07:25 AM.
Re: Paul M. Johnson
#49826 06/19/04 01:06 PM
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OK, OK, had a few glasses of wine and just had to vent my frustration. My comments are not directed towards or indented for anyone on the board, I want to make that clear. Sorry for any harsh language, again, just had to vent.

Thanks for understanding,

CAV104 / Jim


Re: Paul M. Johnson
#49827 06/19/04 02:20 PM
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I understand your frustration. I feel it too (I'm a Viet Nam vet). Whether you are right or wrong, my only criticism is that this is not the proper forum for this kind of discussion. We are brought together by a common interests and goals; i.e. to learn about audio (and video), and pass along that knowledge in an effort to help one another, while having some fun.

We have people here from different countries, different cultures, and different political persuasions, and we have to (or, at least, ought to) go out of our way to avoid stepping on each other's toes. I loathe the concept of "political correctness," but heartily subscribe to the concepts of courtesy and tact.

I'm also a great believer in the concept of "there's a time and a place." While I would agree that this is the time, in my opinion, this is NOT the place.

Hang in there. I know what you feel.

Respectfully,


Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton
Re: Paul M. Johnson
#49828 06/19/04 04:09 PM
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Very disturbing. Rest in peace, Paul Johnson.

Clearly, whatever we want to call it, war is being waged on Western civilization, and it is the ugliest kind of war - a religious war. There was no music in Afghanistan under the Taliban - no Axioms, no Mozart, no music. Music is one of the great human accomplishments - an accomplishment rejected by those who would kill us because of our religions or lack of religion.

So, here's to beautiful music, progress of human civilization and Paul Johnson, Daniel Perle, Nick Berg, those lost in the World Trade Centers, the Pentagon and that field in Pennsylvania.

Confusion to our enemies.


Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.
Re: Paul M. Johnson
#49829 06/19/04 06:25 PM
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Well said, 2x6.

CAV104, try writing letters to your local papers. I've had a few put in print over the years (though they sometimes edit out the best parts) and while it probably doesn't accomplish much, it does make me feel better.

Evil flourishes when good men do nothing.
Failure is not an option.
Never before have so many owed so much to so few.


Re: Paul M. Johnson
#49830 06/19/04 10:09 PM
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Cav-

i am right there with you man. when i read and saw what they did to mr johnson, i was fueled with anger. its hard to deal with emotions like remorse and compassion, and have them mixed with thoughts of violence and revenge. i dont claim to understand every aspect of this conflict, but i know the difference between war , and the actions of savages. these type men are cowards, not even human.. they hide behind the cloak of their religion, yet perform the acts of hellish demons. i am deeply troubled by the actions of these evil cowards.. and i am even more troubled by the community of believers that condone this type of retribution. it is a crime against all of man-kind.

yesterday was a sad day..

bigjohn


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Re: Paul M. Johnson
#49831 06/20/04 07:50 AM
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Being the forum's most prolific poster, I figure if I didn't say that I am deeply disturbed, outraged, and questioning what kind of human being in this day and age could act in such a savage manner, then you'd call me a pinko commie.

We just need to remember that these militants are not representative of the entire population over there (though it seems their numbers are growing ), just as US soldiers who mutilate the already dead bodies of the enemy are also not representative of the entire armed forces.

Re: Paul M. Johnson
#49832 06/20/04 11:07 AM
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In memory of Paul Johnson on Fathers Day.We all must remember all the Fathers that were killed on 9/11 also.I'not to sure what to think when the beheading of a civilian is somewhat jutified by another terrible actWe all need to remmember if given a chance they would kill our sons our daughters,mothers and fathers,so try to like them if you please but not me.


Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud

Re: Paul M. Johnson
#49833 06/20/04 04:34 PM
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Over where, PMB? Somalia? Sudan? Nigeria? Bali? Philippines? Pakistan? Afghanistan? Iraq? Saudi Arabia? Kashmir? Lebanon? Gaza? Haven't the religious police and Sharia courts in Saudi Arabia beheaded people for converting from Islam? Beheaded a princess for immoral behavior?

What did we do wrong? Do we name streets after soldiers who acted poorly? Do we elevate suicide bombers to the status of rock stars?


Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.
Re: Paul M. Johnson
#49834 06/20/04 07:53 PM
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As long as there is just one civilian out there who does not condone the beheadings, I refuse to put them all into the same basket... to hell. That's all I'm saying. Watch out for generalizations.

Re: Paul M. Johnson
#49835 06/20/04 11:39 PM
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I don't have much to add here.
At risk of being called simple-minded... it is simply US vs THEM. And that is of their determination.

It does not matter that some (many, most, whatever) of the people in those countries intend us no harm - and would probably even embrace many aspects of Western culture if given a chance - those people are powerless and fearful in their own countries. Fanatic Shiites are the people who are gaining power. Those are the people who most definitely intend us harm. They do not share your modern, cultural-relativist view. They do not share your vision of a peaceful, prosperous world where all human life is respected. They are dangerous folks and there are lots of them.

Remember back to 9-11: the "Arab street" was celebrating en masse the killing of innocent civilians. America "needed" that to happen, they said. We are not talking about an isolated, small group of terrorists who wish us ill, but whole populations who would rejoice in the destruction of the United States.

They use brutal tactics, defy military convention, commit atrocity after atrocity, and then cry to the liberal int'l media that they are the poor victims.

I've seen enough.



Re: Paul M. Johnson
#49836 06/20/04 11:54 PM
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I agree with you BigWill. I'm not sure whether the Shi'ites are more dangerous than the Wahabis or other fanatical Sunni sects. In any case, the 9/11 celebrations all over that part of the world were marked by wild eyed joy, similar to those celebrants we saw in Faluja dancing around the charred and mutilated bodies of the 4 murdered non-Muslims hanging from a bridge. We saw it in Mogadishu in Somalia.

We can call it anything we like, but the fact is, the war being fought against us is a religious war.


Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.
Re: Paul M. Johnson
#49837 06/20/04 11:57 PM
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BigWill, as long as you qualify the THEM, which you have somewhat, I can almost agree with you. The use of too many vague pronouns vexes me.

Now I leave you with a nice quote.


"The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the Nation as a whole. Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile. To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else.


"Roosevelt in the Kansas City Star", 149
May 7, 1918

Re: Paul M. Johnson
#49838 06/21/04 03:53 AM
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Perhaps I'm naive but if *we* stay the coarse in Iraq I see great things ahead for both sides. Terrorism will not suite those evil indivisuals for much longer because they are now targeting other Arabs (Iraqis). I truely would be surprised if this eventually doesn't turn some Arabs towards the westerner's side as OVER TIME they will see we are trying to actually help them rebuild their country (Afganistan, Iraq).


Re: Paul M. Johnson
#49839 06/21/04 04:34 AM
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I don't know about that, Inane. Although the "street" seems upset with the idea of Muslims missing non-Muslims and accidentally killing Muslims, until it reacts the same way to the idea of the purposeful killing of non-Muslims, I don't see a lot to be hopeful about.


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Re: Paul M. Johnson
#49840 06/21/04 05:46 AM
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pmb, I am anything but mindlessly servile. Truth is: most people don't know their ass from their elbow in this country and every other country on the planet. They know the truths that are told to them. What you choose to believe is your own business.
In times of crises we should be united as one, whether it is an election year or not. I would put the lives of myself and my family in the hands of W, flawed though he may be, before I would trust one word an Arab leader or the media has to say.

Re: Paul M. Johnson
#49841 06/21/04 08:48 AM
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BigWill, though I don't agree with you, I admire your conviction. I know you're not an automaton. I also don't try to label you (even though you've slapped some doozies on me) because I don't really know a whole heck of a lot about you.

Can you imagine what Bush et al could get away with if no "lefty" civilians scrutinized his every move and decision? We're just trying to keep him honest, war or no.

Re: Paul M. Johnson
#49842 06/21/04 02:40 PM
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In reply to:


Muslims missing non-Muslims and accidentally killing Muslims




There is no *missing* involved here, they ARE targeting anyone that doesn't 100% agree with them. That includes other Muslims.


Re: Paul M. Johnson
#49843 06/21/04 02:41 PM
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This will have to be my last post for a few days - I'm heading off to Vegas to participate in some good old fashioned Western depravity.

The things I've heard said about Bush, and his administration's motivation for going to war in Iraq, are bizarre. War for oil, revenge for his dad, white American males needed a war to make themselves feel good even though blacks are dominating professional sports, etc... It appears to me that Bush is trying to do what he thinks is right, as did Clinton, Bush Sr., Reagan, and Carter before him. All different guys, all deserving of the respect the office of President requires.
A large body of politicians, such as Congress, is incapable of making swift, informed foreign policy decisions. In this area we now have to trust the executive - there is no alternative. To suggest that any President would callously send the men and women of our armed forces overseas to die for trivial purposes is a heavy, heavy accusation. I don't see that in him.
Sorry if I've labeled you in the past. You're obviously a thinking, caring, intelligent guy (who has been led astray ).

Re: Paul M. Johnson
#49844 06/21/04 03:00 PM
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ALL DIFFERENT GUYS, ALL DESERVING OF THE RESPECT THE OFFICE OF PRESIDENT REQUIRES.
Well said and AMEN!!


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DON'T BE A DICK.
Re: Paul M. Johnson
#49845 06/21/04 05:11 PM
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I have not until now been able to bring myself to jump in for fear I would tend to inflame the discussion, which while I find it interesting, I am a bit uncomfortable with on the Axiom forum.

My wife is Israeli. Her father's family has lived there for six generations, long before the modern state of Israel. Her mother and her parents fled the Nazis in Poland to Israel 1939. The rest of her mother's family remain in Aushwitz. Some of her family were murdered by arabs in Palestine back in the 1930's. Her grandfather bought land in Jeruselem before the creation of the state of Israel. This land, which my wife has inherited an interest in, has been a Palestinian refugee camp since 1948.

Having grown up with generations of experience with this conflict our conclusion is this: The problem is not Arabs, Muslims or any other ethnic or religious group. It is anger fueled by pain that often manifests as fanatism. We haven't noticed fanaticism being exlusive to any religious or ethnic group.

Growing up in Israel my wife will tell you that Jewish fanaticism was, and is more troubling to her than was Arab fanaticism. She got to see this quite close up from her cousin Mier Kahana, one of the most fanatical Jewish leaders campaigning for the removal of all Palestinians from Israel and the occupied teritories (he was assasinated in New York 10 or 12 years ago).

We find it sad to have these discussions use generalizations such as Wahabists, Shia, Jews, Christians, Americans etc. in us against them positions. I believe these are all dehumanizing stereotypes whether applied to others or oneself. We are all different individuals with both good and bad traits. Much of the trouble in the world comes from the dehumanisation of treating others as well as ourselves as other than as unique individuals.

I believe that if Paul Johnson had been treated as an individual human being rather than as a symbol for all the U.S. "offenses" he would still be alive. I also believe that if those who had murdered him had treated themselves as individual human beings rather than as members of a religious belief system and as members of other ethnic identities, Paul Johnson would also still be alive.

I have never had a bad experience with the Arabs I have met in Israel. My one experience in a Muslim country was a vaction we took in Turkey because we couldn't stand staying in Israel (too much tension) while my step children visited their father.

I went to Turkey expecting an intense and somewhat overwhelming experience in a very foriegn country. The first surprise arriving in Istanbul was how clean it was. The second was how safe I felt. I never encountered anyone who seamed at all questionable, even amongst those living in what to us would be extreme poverty (people trying to make a living sitting on the sidewalk with a bathroom scale looking for donations from peole who wanted to weigh themselves as they walked down the street). We did not encounter the kind of alchoholic and addicted homelessness that I see in U.S. cities even though Tukey was undergoing a major econimic crisis (1,250,000 Turkish Lira to the dollar exchange rate, with 10% inflation per month in the summer of 2001). Rather my experience was more characterized by the guy who rented us a car. He said to us, as he turned us lose with his car to drive the Turkish countryside: "If you have any trouble with the car, I am 100% sure you can ask any Turkish person and they will help you". When we bought some rugs from a young man in his father's shop, he was unable to take our credit card. He walked with us to several curency exchanges but he wouldn't let us get cash because the surcharges they wanted were too high to suit him. So he said: "take the rugs without paying me, I will drive the ten miles to your hotel tomorrow and you can pay me at the better exchange rate at the hotel".

This is the side of Muslim culture I hear next to nothing about in discussions these days, the deeply ingrained sense of hospitality. The duty that Muslims have to take in even their enemies and to protect them with their life if they ask for sanctuary.

I believe that to solve the problem with terrorism we must avoid making the same mistake the terrorists make. This is to categorize other people in mass and to attack them indiscriminately. The more precisely and carefully we we can address the mechanisms of terror, the more quickly we can remove it without adding to the causes of it. As with most problems precision and finnesse are more likely to succeed than the application of force without sufficient control.

To take this back to the home theater topic, you might enjoy the movie "The Beast", it is an Israeli movie about the Soviet invasion of Afganistan. It brings it down to human the level of a Soviet tank crew who become separated from their unit and the group of Muhajadeen who hunt their tank "The Beast".


Mark
Re: Paul M. Johnson
#49846 06/21/04 05:28 PM
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WOW! Mark, that was articulate. Thank you.


Jack

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton
Re: Paul M. Johnson
#49847 06/21/04 05:29 PM
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Sorry, md55, but Turkey is the exception rather than the rule. You can thank K'mal Attaturk for the rise of a secular state in his effort to westernize the bankrupt and senescent heart of the Ottoman Empire. Turkey stands pretty much alone as a semi democratic state among Muslim countries - and it stands that way because the Army is always prepared to bring down any civil administration which threatens to return Turkey to an Islamic state.

While your family's historical credentials are impressive, permit the question: What remains of the historically great Jewish communities of Damascus, Baghdad, Alexandria, Cairo? How are the Christian communities faring in Islamic countries? Permit a quick answer to my own question - Muslim countries are now substantiall Judenrein, free of Jews, and the Christian minorities, though afraid to speak, are terribly oppressed by their neighbors. It is therefore somewhat distressing to see you compare democratic states with fascist totalitarian societies and equate them by saying each has its fanatics.

No one is saying all Muslims are bad, but if you don't see that the distribution of normative values in some societies condone and applaud murder, genocide, and the oppression of religious minorities then md55, I think you're looking at the world as you wish it were as opposed to how it is.


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Re: Paul M. Johnson
#49848 06/21/04 05:34 PM
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good post mark.. food for thought!!

i think as americans, we do risk categorizing these different nations and beliefs. the lines become blurred when we try and separate the good from evil.

bigjohn


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Re: Paul M. Johnson
#49849 06/21/04 05:42 PM
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Evil exists.



Sorry for the weird picture previously posted, had no idea.

Last edited by 2x6spds; 06/21/04 05:47 PM.

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Re: Paul M. Johnson
#49850 06/21/04 07:36 PM
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Mark, that was an amazing post. I share your sentiments.

I recently came across a fascinating article having to do with cognitive dissonance, or what happens phychologically when something you believe is contradicted. It's a fascinating read.

Re: Paul M. Johnson
#49851 06/21/04 08:46 PM
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I think there's a lot of room for discussion about US policy in Iraq. The matter raised by the beheading of Paul Johnson is not US policy, but rather the war which is being fought against Western Civilization.

The beheading of Paul Johnson does not stand alone. You will recall Daniel Pearl, Nick Johnson, the Burnhams (Christian Missionaries beheaded in the Phillipines by Abu Sayeff), Daniel Arad, 'Princess' Leila, a member of the 'royal house' of Saud, beheaded for "loose morals," the 3 Buddhists beheaded in Thailand recently, a Hindu family of 5 beheaded in Kashmir, the wild eyed delight in the crowd in Faluja celebrating the burned and mutilated bodies of 4 Americans, Dan Arad, and thousands in Somalia, Ethiopia, Nigeria. What do you think is happening here?

Does your world view permit the possibility that not only is a religious war being waged against non Muslims by Muslims but that nothing is required of you other than your religion and being in the wrong place at the wrong time for you to be a player here?

If you don't think that beheading is a practice embraced by the normative values of Islam have you considered that cognitive dissonance is a possible explanation?


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Re: Paul M. Johnson
#49852 06/21/04 09:12 PM
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Mark, Peter

Thank you to both of you for your posts. Mark, that was amazing. Specifically this part:
"I believe that if Paul Johnson had been treated as an individual human being rather than as a symbol for all the U.S. "offenses" he would still be alive. I also believe that if those who had murdered him had treated themselves as individual human beings rather than as members of a religious belief system and as members of other ethnic identities, Paul Johnson would also still be alive."

You are both doing a great of job of saying (at least from what I am reading here) "Don't paint all muslims with the same brush."

Thanks

jr


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#49853 06/21/04 10:19 PM
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I'd like to thank all of you for sharing your thoughts here. Personally I do not feel comfortable using this forum to debate what is too off topic. I'd be happy with personal messages but one public post was enough for me.


Mark
Re: Paul M. Johnson
#49854 06/21/04 10:37 PM
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Hi Peter,

My post was originally a personal message to you thanking you for your balanced and humane thoughts. I loved your FDR quote. To me that was real leadership with courage. As I wrote you I decided to make it my one post on this subject. I wouldn't have done it had you not provided the balance to the thread.

I enjoyed the article on cognitive dissonance. I started as a psych major before switching to architecture. My wife is a phycologist so it has always been one of my loves. A friend of mine likes to tell the story of a cult that believed that they would all be taken up to heaven by aliens. They sold all their belongings, prepared themselves and met at the designated location to be taken to the new realm. When the appointed time came and nothing happened, that was when they became real converts for life. Easier than admitting you are a complete fool. This mechanism is used in many ways. Fraternity initiations will produce real long term loyalty if they require you to do difficult, unpleasent and foolish things. Better to place real value on belonging than face what you did for something without lasting meaning.

I am wondering where the current situation will end. During the Nixon administration I saw how people supported him right up until the end. When the dissonance finally became to shrill they hated his guts and wouldn't credit him for his successes either.


Mark
Re: Paul M. Johnson
#49855 06/21/04 10:44 PM
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First, a big thank you to EVERYONE for keeping this thread civil (and thus undeleted).

In reply to:

Does your world view permit the possibility that not only is a religious war being waged against non Muslims by Muslims but that nothing is required of you other than your religion and being in the wrong place at the wrong time for you to be a player here?


My world view is quite a bit wider than yours, I think. I am not blind to the violence that is being brought upon non-muslims by radical muslims. People without respect for human life, regardless of nationality or religion, are evil. It doesn't matter if Paul worked for a company that helped put Apache attack helicopters in the air. He was a human being, and his life was sacred. His being an American is immaterial to the value of his life.

I am also not blind to the fact that most muslims are NOT radicals and are decent human beings, to boot. There is really much less difference between a (non-US) Muslim and a US citizen as you might think. We all just want to live safe, peaceful lives -- and make money.

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Re: Paul M. Johnson
#49856 06/22/04 05:30 AM
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I don't think anyone here wants an all out war against all Arabs/Muslims. But we are in an all out war against these terrorists. You just can't compromise with those "people".


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#49857 06/22/04 06:31 AM
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In any case, they're at war with us whatever we do.


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Re: Paul M. Johnson
#49858 06/22/04 06:44 AM
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Not true. They weren't at war with us 40 years ago...

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Arab countries were busy hustling us 40 years ago by playing the US against the Soviet Block. Doesn't mean that they weren't at war with us, just wasn't a hot war. The Muslim Brotherhood has been at war with the West since Napoleon humiliated the Marmalukes in Egypt. Wahab and Saud made a partnership which enabled them to kick the Hashemites out of Arabia, dominate competing tribes and warlords - a successful partnership based on virulent xenophobia and anti-Westernism. Nasserism was an anti-Western, anti-Jewish, violent experssion of fascistic nationalism.


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Re: Paul M. Johnson
#49860 06/22/04 10:19 PM
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2x6, your history is a little off.

Napoleon defeated the Marmalukes in 1798. The Muslim Brotherhood was founded in 1928, a full 120 years later, as a result of the 1924 collapse of the Islamic/Ottoman "Khilafa" (central leadership and unity). In part, the collapse came about after a territorial dispute over -- you guessed it -- Jerusalem, which was then possessed by the Ottoman Empire, could not be solved diplomatically. The Zionist movement convinced Western countries (England, France) to assist in the dissolution of the empire. Come WWI, the West was collaborating with Arab revolts against the Ottoman Empire. They also started a campaign of Christian preaching and the building of Christian schools and churches. The goal was to convert Muslims to Christianity -- or conquest from within.

So, a lot of the movements you mention were a direct result of the West's policy toward what we now refer to as the Middle East. We, the West, are as much at fault for religious war.

Re: Paul M. Johnson
#49861 06/22/04 10:43 PM
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Muslim Jihadists beheaded Kim Sun-Il today. Must be our fault. Islamic law is sensitive on the subject of conversion - you may recall that Islam converted its neighbors at the point of a sword with the choice, convert or die. Interesting that Islamic law provides the death penalty by beheading for any Muslim who converts to another faith. Freedom of religion at work? That same law provides for the death penalty for anyone who attempts to convert a Muslim to another faith.

As to the history - The ease with which the French swept aside the Marmalukes stunned the Islamic world which reacted with a fundamentalist, anti-Western, anti-modernist movement which was the forebearer of Wahabism and the Muslim Brotherhood.

The "Zionists," didn't convince anyone to dismantle the Ottoman Empire. You may recall the Ottoman Empire was on the losing side of World War I. France, England and Russia didn't need anyone to convince them to dismantle the senescent and backward Ottoman Empire.

Beheading is not a way of life.

Last edited by 2x6spds; 06/22/04 10:55 PM.

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Re: Paul M. Johnson
#49862 06/22/04 10:54 PM
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You can point your finger the other direction all you want, but you cannot dispute the fact that the West has had one big huge hand in the cookie jar of events leading up to this latest bloodshed. Take off your blinders.

This latest beheading is absolutely horrible. I feel for Kim Sun-Il's parents and everyone else who know him. I hope the 3000 new troops South Korea is sending will help bring stability to the area.

Re: Paul M. Johnson
#49863 06/22/04 11:18 PM
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OK, it must be our fault that Jihadists are beheading Hindus, Philippinos, Americans, Jews, Koreans, Christian Missionaries ... all over the world! Someone has to take responsibility for their actions and their normative culture's values. I guess Mohammed Atta was our fault as well - the World Trade Center atrocities, the Pentagon atrocities, the Khobar Tower atrocities, the atrocities!

How is all that our fault? Time for societies which celebrate evil conduct to take responsibility!


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Re: Paul M. Johnson
#49864 06/23/04 12:12 AM
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I didn't say it was our fault. I'm just saying nobody lives in a vacuum.
In reply to:

Time for societies which celebrate evil conduct to take responsibility!


I'm also not trying to defend the actions of evil militants. They are fully to blame for their individual choices. I realize there is an atmosphere of resentment and distrust of the West, and that this atmosphere has bred people cabable of murdering those they disagree with in cold blood. But until the silent, peaceful majority gain a voice, they cannot be blamed for what is happening. They are currently living in fear.

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