Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners M22s with sub (EP175) or M60s ??

OK, so here's another question that I'm sure has been addressed in some past thread but I can't seem to find it. Apologies in advance if it's right under my nose -- send a link if so... (ps, I realize a very similar thread is currently being discussed, but it does not address my specific issues)

I am now considering going with M60s rather than M22s and an EP175 for the following reasons:

1) $100 cheaper, yet gets me a much higher quality set of mains. And I can always add a sub later.
2) Less overall space in the living room given over to speakers assuming the sub can't be completely hidden somewhere). This is not so important to me, but essential for my wife.
3) Assumingly, less of the wall-rattling bass that I don't need and would only disturb my twin infants anyway, yet still plenty bass for the music that will constitute the majority of my listening anyway.
4) Heavier speakers which don't sit on stands would theoretically be harder for my twins to topple.

OK, here are some other factors in the equation that might effect advice given:

A) As present I will only be driving these speakers with a Denon AVR-900 (60w channel @ 8 ohms). A receiver upgrade is hopefully in the near future but maybe not.
B) I've heard that Axioms tower line is much harder to "dial in" than the bookshelves, something I have next to no knowledge/experience with.
C) Room size will be 12 x 22, with the speakers facing across the narrrow axis, so if the M60s need more than a foot and half say of spacing from the wall to sound optimal then that probably answers my question right there.

Thanks in advance for any advice given.

On #1, I don't think that the M60s are "much" better than the M22s. Certainly they have more bass, but both are highly regarded with regards to imagining, clarity and soundstage. Also, the extra bass in the M60s (although I'm sure it's prodigious, as with my M50s) is not an adequate substitute for a good sub, even with music.

i would have to disagree

the m60s are much better then the m22s. I traded m22s(4 of em) for 2 m60s and IMO the soundfield, and depth of the sound is much better. the m22s sounded tinier compared to the m60s.


In terms of bass the m22s have no bass at all, and the m60s don't have enough bass. In both cases you will need a subwoofer to do the job right. But, you CAN get away with an m60 without a subwoofer. I just don't recommend it

Ken is correct about the matching imaging, clarity and soundstage for both speakers. He's also correct in that the bass provided from the M60s is no substitute for a good sub. But, the bass provided is superior to that provided by the M22s (I've owned both in a room 11.5x18x8). If you intend to get a sub at a later date, I think getting the M60s now, is a good idea. It will provide acceptable bass with music, and they'll be just passable with movies. However, when you add that sub, and I recommend you do as soon as it's feasible, you WILL discover what you've been missing.

I've got no opinion on the "dial in" theory. I know that the M80s are a little more difficult to position accurately than the M60s, but I don't know if that also applies to bookshelf speakers compared to floor-standers.

Both the M22s and the M60s can be placed as close as 3 inches to the wall behind them, though It's my personal opinion a little more space would be better. But, 3 inches is all the space needed for the rear ports to "breathe" properly. So, you don't need to worry about that.

It's your call.

I'll also say that my M50s were harder to dial in (to use that phrase) than Peter's M22s were (just sort of stuck them there, and bang! great soundstage...)

sensibull-
After upgradeing to the M60s from the m22s yesterday.
I can say after hearing the 2 side by side, you'll be happier with the M60s in the long run.
Dont get me wrong, I loved the sound I got from the 22s, but the 60s just "filled out" the room better. Our room sizes are simular, with the exception of a vaulted ceiling.
I've experimented with turning my sub off and on with the 60s, and find that several of my cds I prefer the sub off or turned way down on.
The 60s do seem to need a little more tweaking in the posistioning, but I have found a great spot for them in less than 24 hours. The tweaking has just involved moving them forward and backward and side to side by just inches. Right now they are about 6 inches from the wall.
Hope this helps
Bray

Do the sensible thing and get the M60s. As you stated, they will be more stable when the kids become toddlers; you'll likely get better sound; bass from a subwoofer travels through walls easier than the rest of the frequency range, making the sub a liability when the kids are sleeping; and eventually you'll probably want a big monster sub anyway.

Thanks everybody. Sound advice, as usual (no pun intended). The M60s it is... now I just need to decide on the finish and somehow survive the three-week wait until we move into the new place ;-)

Although I will someday buy a sub, I have had my M60s, QS8s and VP150 for about 4 months now. I realize that the sub will make a huge difference, but since the M60s fill the room so completely, with such clarity, I am not rushing into it. I thought the M60s might lack in the bass area, but the more I listen to them, the more I know I was wrong.

Again I will say this, a sub is the way to go, but in your situation with the twins, the M60s will put a huge smile on your face all by themselves.

John

I just got my M60's and that combined with my SVSpb2 sub all I can say is HOLLY POO POO.

Are we talking about Mr. Hankey here?

Trust me, the 60's are better than the 22's. I loved the 22's but you will not regret the 60's. 400.00 dollars is alot of money, but in the long run, it is well worth it.