Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater All QS8 HT speaker system

Things seem slow lately, so lets see if I can stir it up a little by kicking around an idea I brought up earlier, but which got roundly slapped down. The ultimate HT surround system, 4 QS8s and a VP150 (or maybe 5 QS8s).

Now before everyone laughs at me (although that’s certainly fun to do) let me just bloviate for a minute. Every review of the QS8 I have read praises them, and at least two reviews mention how surprisingly well they work for direct sound. I’m thinking QS8s ought to make a HT setup that provides a room-size sweet spot, can take up no floor space, and is very forgiving of placement (sub required, of course.) They are the perfect imperfect living room speaker.

Using direct/reflecting speakers is nothing new. In 1973, when I first started to buy stereo gear, the setup to have was widely considered to be (by my peers) 4 Bose 901s driven by a Pioneer 949 (35 w/channel, great lights). I have always liked the idea of omni-directional radiators, although my own current speakers are Klipsh Heresy’s. But I’ve lived with 901s and they convinced me that the surround effect is more important in creating “realism” than perfect frequency response.

I think the QS8 is probably a better speaker than the 901, and I know they’re half the price. Axiom might not be the traditional source for this type of system, but I say why not?

Problems? Considering the 110Hz floor of this speaker, you got to turn your sub crossover up.

OK, lets rip this idea to shreds, and/or firm it up into something useful.

The first problem I see with this is that the QS8s give you absolutely NO direct sound. It all goes up, down, and sideways.

But most of all, WHY would you want to pay that much for main speakers when the the cheaper M22s would do the job unquestionably better?

pmbuko, thanks for your response.

First issue - The woofs go up and down, the tweeters go left and right at angles, distributing the high freqs over more of the living room than just a specific sweeet spot. Forget about the lows, they'll go everywhere anyway. Result - no sweet spot but a better image over more of the room.

Second, M22s are excellent speakers, and cheaper (one less tweeter). But in my imaginary HT system, direct front dialog would still be well represented by a VP150, leaving the rest of the speakers to make a BIG soundstage.

Or at least that's my theory.

In reply to:

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Result - no sweet spot but a better image over more of the room.

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I think this is where you're mistaken. The QS8s were not designed for imaging. They were designed for diffusion, which is the exact opposite. Imaging and soundstage require precision, and comes mostly from audio cues contained in direct, non-reflected sound.

I would have thought exactly the same thing, but as I read down the professional review links, I see things like these:

"The QS8 achieves a near-ideal presentation of both directional and ambient surround effects."

"For example, in Attack of the Clones, you will hear the wonderful environmental sounds of the water planet, coupled with very accurate directional surround information during the battle between Obi-Wan and Jango Fett."

"it is one surround speaker that can do it all, perfectly performing the contradictory requirements of discrete effects and surround envelopment. A good example of discrete effects is in chapter 7 of the DVD of The Others, in which Nicole Kidman’s character is annoyed by the disturbing footsteps above her as she does her needlepoint. The footsteps begin in the left rear and end up in the front center."

Its true they were not designed for this, but hey, penicillin started out as mold.

"Bloviate" Niiiiice!

Larry, I'm intrigued. You make compelling arguments.

My knee jerk reaction is to agree with Peter about the imaging part. The Blose example (as well as the Def Tech bipolar designs, and the electrostatic/ribbon products) infer a very significant amount of direct sound in addition to all that diffusion. But you could possibly "get there" with the QS8's too, *depending upon placement*.

I think the satisfaction level with this setup would be extremely dependent upon room boundaries and placement. I know, I know, everybody says that the QS8's are very flexible, but that comment relates to their primary use as a diffuse surround speaker. Using them as mains would pose pretty different challenges, I think.

Second, your observation about the bass extension is a good one. Somebody who has been posting a bit recently alleges that all bass above about 60Hz is quite directional to his ears. I frankly don't know where the line is, but I think it is safe to assert that sound gets more directional the higher the frequency, up to a certain point where only my dog can hear it. Anyway, maybe if you used stereo subwoofers that would alleviate some issues there, albeit at a price. You'd certainly need subwoofers that had good response at a higher range than you're typically evaluating.

I do have some frame of reference here, which may be encouraging. My current setup is a longish, narrowish room where the listening/viewing area (and the QS8's) are halfway back (it is a living room / dining room combo). So, when we're on the couch in the living room, the surrounds are in a good spot and it's all lovely. But here's the thing - I often listen to music in 5-channel stereo, and when you're sitting at the dining room table, the QS8's are the primary perceived source (rather than the M60's, which are 18 feet away). It really sounds pretty darn good, and I've been happy about the unintended benefit of extending the quality of the "stereo" the length of the room.

In summary, why don't you just TRY IT and report your findings back to us

What about bi-wiring/amping (one from the A speaker, one from the B speaker) a set of M22s and a set of QS8s up front?

Cost aside - you'd get a front firing M22 with enough low bass to turn your sub back down. This speaker would fire directly at the main listening position. Then, the Qs could be placed above the M22s, maybe in a position not unlike the Yamaha "Presence" speakers - above and slightly behind the 22s. This would give the front stage a direct locality to the sound, while simultaneously dispersing the sound.

Now - this is just theorizing - I don't know how this might sound. In fact the Qs might destroy all of the 22s soundstaging capabilities. But, pairing these two speakers might provide a convincing, expansive front soundstage that can accomodate a larger sweetspot for more seating in a larger room.

Interesting either way.

tomtuttle and Capn Pickard - thank you both for your comments.

tomtuttle, have you by chance ever listened to just the Qs, alone? I'm not suprised to hear they sound "pretty darn good." BTW, we're almost neighbors - I live in Everett.

Capn Pickard, using Qs as presence speakers is a great idea. I could really see Q4s in that role. Anybody around who has done that?

So I guess the question is, what do Qs do to the soundstage? Can they produce a coherent image alone? I am tempted to try it. This thread is my reality check. I can learn from my own experience, but I'd rather learn from others. It's so much cheaper and easier.

Larry, we should get together for a beer and a listen sometime.

I've not heard the QS8's by themselves. I don't even know if my modest Denon will let me do that. I'll give it a shot through the settings and let you know how it goes. I'm probably not "driven" enough on this topic to swap wires at the moment.

I think this is a fascinating discussion, but I also think that if your practical application is to set up a home theatre/listening area for your family, you're probably better off with a pair of M22's up front - even if you have to wall-mount them with a FMB to get them out of the way. Refresh my memory - does your room have particularly odd placement constraints?

Why don't you try to run the 7 channel stereo function, and turn off your A-B switch up front (essentially turning off the front channels). Then, unplug your center, and play some music. See how the imaging goes that way. If all goes right, then the rear of your system will be like your fronts, and you can compare.