Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo A question about NAD/HK/Pioneer receivers....

First of all, does anyone have one? I have scanned the internet for recievers in the 300-500 dollar range. I have run
into the Pioneer 914 for about 399.00 and an entry level NAD for a similar price. I have also read Pioneer is coming out with a 1014?? Does anyone know the price on this? My question is that I have read three different independent professional reviews of the NAD and it consistently says it is a musical reciever as oppposed to a HT one. It has 5.1 surround which is probably all my listening room will ever hold. The Pioneer has been reviewed again for being "bright" and not so good with music. Though, it has all the bells and whistles you could ask for for any upgrade in the HT area. My listening habits are about 90-10, maybe 80-20 two channel music at this point. Eventually, I will get surrounds. My fronts are Axiom M60's. Can anyone give me any advice? My Onkyo 502 is going upstairs with my M22's. I've also seen the HK 1804 for a similar price but read where it has no bass or treble settings. I have always been more of a treble man. I'm afraid this could sound flat. Highs are important in my music as opposed to alot of bass. Thanks is advance....

Todd,

I haven't compared the Pioneer or the NAD but I have heard the HK's (although I don't think they have an 1804 model) and ended up with the Denon AVR-1804. The HK at the same price point has a lot less power. Right now on Cructchfield.com the Denon is on sale for $399 which makes me cry because I bought mine only a month ago for $499. Anyway, it is a wonderful receiver... 6.1, 90 watts of very clean power per channel... the whole array of Dolby and DTS compatiblility, but most importantly to me, just like you, it sounds wonderful with music. The treble and bass can be set independantly and it is an easy to use and intuitive receiver. I listened extensively to the Yamaha's and the Denons and finally decided Denon based on build quality... frankly they are both excellent sounding amp's. I hope this gives you something else to consider.

Thank you for your response and you are correct. I meant the Denon 1804. I believe you said it had bass and treble controls. On the CNET website on their review it said that the "bad" was it had no separate bass and treble. Thanks if you can respond. That receiver had everything I wanted, but I like the treble control.

Todd,

I have an NAD T752. It seems you're considering the new T743, which isn't terribly different from mine. I've been very happy with the T752, and would definitely recommend NAD. It's very solid and powerful for 2-channel listening, and it has everything I need for 5.1 at this point.

I actually considered the new T743 vs. reconditioned/blemished T752. I ended up getting the T752 for two major reasons: More power (80 wpc vs. 50) and 7.1 inputs for flexibility down the road. Not to mention, I did better pricewise on a blemished (almost unnoticeably blemished) T752 than a new T743.

If you're interested in some information on where I purchased or just more NAD discussion in general, send me a PM.

Good luck!

The Denon AVR-1804 DOES have bass and treble controls... you go to tone control on the front of the unit (or from the remote as well) and then there are separte settings for both treble and bass. There are no indivual knobs for the function but it doesn't matter as once you press the tone control button you can use the select knob to change the setting... also there is a tone defeat button that allows you to go back to a neutral setting to listen to the difference in sound. In addition to that you can use the direct mode for any source that also overrides your treble/bass settings, while leaving the unit in stereo mode allows for what you have set. The Denon unit also uses its "Personal Memory Plus" which allows you to set the treble and bass differently for different sources... want more bass when you have a movie in Dolby Digital? You can set it up that way while leaving the stereo mode to have more treble for your CD's. I am really impressed with this unit and I do not think you can beat the price per watt from any other unit with the sale Crutchfield is running. Its crisp, clean sound that pairs very well with the Axiom's (I have the M22's and can't get the volume past -20)

Todd,
I have PIONEER vsx-d912 ( HT ONLY USE), which is not much diff from 914 ( good for HT - bright for music, and good price would be $300 shipped ) AND PE vsx-d2012 ( which is PE ELITE 45TX paid $600 instead of $1200 )
for music ( I listen 90 stereo/10 HT)
What I like about 2012:
1. MCACC with EQ ( distance inj .5 ft, level .5 db, EQ for EACH channel and FRONT allign)
2. crossover 50,80,100 and so on
3. Full, rich and at the same time very detailed and balanced sound ) As full as HK7200 which failed my test due to full, but ( HK fans don't get affended ) too darkish, over bass heavy, and not very dynamic sound ( even in spite of published 40ms slew rate, triple crossover is a nice toy for 10 minutes, EQ does it for me)
4. great remote all functions, tons of free memory, runs everything
5. Great is stereo ( ONKYO 701 failed due to low power, same distance setting for BOTH fronts, and really lame stereo sound, which was partually compenstaed with theater mode in stereo, but HEY - it is a STEROE sound )
6. video/audio independent source
7. multi zone/bi ampable. or plain sur back
8. midnight ( in ALL modes ), good ole LOUDNESS, D. noise reduction ( sometimes it does the job, HiBit sampling ( mostly doesn't do any damage and sometime does a good job )
9. M60 are NOT BRIGHT speakers with PE2012 - they PRECISE :-)
10. USB/R232 support
11. WEIGHT 45 lbs ( buy it by the pounds :-)
12. Runs warm, not hot like HK, have not heard sup. fan kicking in yet
13. Memory for setting for different modes/sources ( can compare to AI sound of ONKYO - nice )
14. Or - it does have separate bass/trebble control

I wanted NAD, but was not willing to pay for 9** lineup,
and do not regret it for a second - PE2012(45TX) mated with two M60s produce sound which is MORE "THEATER LIKE" then my living room complete surround system.

My advise about PE914 - do not buy it for music, it is very dynamic, but thin and bright, and build in FAN is JUST full noncense

Thanks bugzy and badger for your responses. My question to jh20477 is how high does the treble setting go?? On my Onkyo it goes to +12. I would even like it higher. Do you think this would power my M60's?? Thanks for your detailed response. I think I'm down to the NAD or Denon. You are correct, the 1804 is 399.00 and they have six months no pay if you qualify. That might be hard to beat.

I honestly cannot answer as too how high the treble can be set, as I am essentially a neutral listener with the treble only boosted +2. As for power, there is no question that it will be able to power your M60's which are rated at the same 93 SPL as my M22's at 8 ohms. There is 90 watts of high-current power there... very close to the 100 watt benchmark and also remember that given the way power must increase expedentially in order to double the volume, you can be assured that the 10 watt difference between 90 and 100 is very slight. If you want my personal opinion its that there simply is not a better receiver for the price available on the market. I thought that at the $499 price... given the chance for $399 I don't think there is any question. Like I said in the first post, the Yamaha's sound good as well, but their build quality is just not quite as high, and that means a lot to me because I want this thing to last a while. I hope this helps.... I don't take this strong a stance with many things, but I have really been impressed by this Denon amp.

I would recommend the Denon 884 which is basically the same as the 1804 at Ecost for I believe $270. I'm ordering mine tomorrow. If you've got the money, I would go with the NAD. They are more powerful than their ratings lead you to believe and they are very musical. I've demoed them several times at a local audio shop through some PSB Image 5B's and it is pure magic. I long for a NAD but the Denon is still quite a reciever for the price.

Though I'm sure you won't go wrong with the Denon, let me just throw in one more good word for the NAD. You can get it within your budget (up to $500 as I understand), and you won't have to wonder what you might have missed a few months down the road. As I mentioned, I'm extremely happy with my T752, and would be happy to share buying tips and other info with you if you're interested.

Of course, my motivations are only slightly selfish. I'd sure like to have another NAD owner around here to compare notes with.

Todd, disregard any reviews you read that speak of "musical" or "bright" receivers, which is nonsense. The Pioneer 1014 which should be out in about two weeks is supposed to list at $700 and will likely be available for around $450 street. Its features apparently will be similar to the 53TX and it should be definitely considered.

One puzzling thing about your setup is that you report that even setting the treble at +12 isn't quite enough with your M60s. There have been a very few complaints that the M60s were too strong in the highs, but the only one that I can recall who complained of not enough didn't have his tweeters connected. Make sure that the connecting straps on the M60 terminals are tight, so that all drivers are actually operating.

I like alot of treble and the highs on the M60's are great. The treble is working. I just like to turn up the levels as high as I can on my Onkyo.
Maybe my ears at 43 don't hear the highs the way I used to. I've never been much of a bass man. This was not intended as a knock on the 60's. I was just downstairs listening to Santana's Greatest Hits and they are magical with all the percussion on that disc.

Any info you can give me would be appreciated on buying. Does your unit have a separate treble and bass option on it? This could turn the tide for me to the NAD's. Again, I like alot of highs and this is why I love the 60's. I have found one refurbed for around 450.00. That seems like a good price, wouldn't you say? I'm about ready to pull the trigger on one or the other. For fifty more bucks, I might go the same unit as you.

Yes, the T752 has separate bass and treble controls (plus a tone defeat button). $450 seems about right for a refurb, but you might try for a blemished model for around the same price. The cosmetic flaw is probably very slight, and it is otherwise a new unit with no known functional issues.

I'll send you a link to the place where I bought mine. They were very helpful, and willing to deal.

You can post the link, Scott. I'd like to see where you got it too.

My only caution to Todd here is that you want to buy from a e-tailer that is authorized by the manufacturer... just like crutchfield is for Denon. If the on-line retailer is NOT authorized your warranty is worthless (and under Murphy's Law you will invariably need a warranty if you try to save a buck and tell yourself the unit won't break, especially a refurbished one).

Good point, jh.

DMC Electronics, the online retailer I mentioned to Todd, is an authorized NAD dealer.

Badger,

Sorry, I re-read and want to make sure that I didn't sound like I was attacking you. I was just wanting to point out the warranty issue.

No offense taken whatsoever, jh. It was a great point, and I just wanted to make sure that Todd knew that DMC met that criterion.

DMC is here in Southern California....I have been there once. Very good reputation and the owner is a good guy.

I sent an E-Mail to the dealer who had the refurb NAD. The dealer was Spearit Sound and they said there were not separate bass and treble controls. They are out of the unit now. Why would this guy not know that??

Who knows, but trust me, I am positive it does. Maybe they are just looking for knobs on the front. Just to clear it up for yourself go to Denon.com and choose receivers, then download the Acrobat users manual for the 1804 and on page 39 it confirms exactly what I said about using the tone control. Its easy to use.

Actually here is the link...
http://www.usa.denon.com/catalog/pdfs/avr%201804_884%20DFU.pdf

Its page 39.

I've been on vacation for the last week, but I saw Todd's message about Spearit Sound and thought I'd reply in case the topic was still open.

The T752 DEFINITELY has individual tone controls. They're not individual knobs, though. There's a tone button that activates "bass" and "treble" modes, after which the volume knob adjusts the respective tone setting. The levels are adjustable from -10 db to +10 db in increments of 2 db. There's also a tone defeat button to engage/disengage your custom bass and treble settings. These level controls are only in effect for the main left and right channels.

Spearit Sound was out of T752 back in May when I purchased, but DMC had and still has them as blemished models.

Let me know if I can add anything more to the decision-making process.

Hi Todd,
It's been quite a while since my last visit. After reading your input, I thought I might share my experience with you.

I have a NAD T761 receiver with a pair of Monitor Audio S8 speakers. In my book, this combination is simply breathtaking. I must tell you that I'm no audio expert and my matching of NAD with MA was purely by chance. Initially, while scouting for a receiver, I shortlisted NAD with Yamaha and Denon. While both Yamaha and Denon were superior for HT when it comes to the dynamics of crashes and explosions, NAD won hands down in bringing out the best in music with superb refinement and details. When it came to speakers, I had problem getting hold of Axiom m60s or 80s to listen in Australia and some kind souls here recommended Monitor Audio as the closest possible similarity to Axiom. The end result was pure listening pleasure anytime.

You're right, NAD has the reputation of producing the best in music and your decision is very much dependent on your personal preference of music over HT or vise versa. With that, I wish you all the best............