Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo M22 Vs. JMlab Chorus 706

I recently purchased a pair of Axiom M22's, and I was very impressed by them. Much more bass than what I expected, based on reading a review. Treble and midrange are great; yea I'm new to all this, so bear with me!
I had visited one of the local high end shops, before I bought the M22's,and the guy said they had just started carrying JMlab speakers. I listened to the Chorus 706, and they sounded great. So I wanted to bring them home and compare them with the Axioms. I have an Onkyo TX-8511 Reciever,low/mid-fi I know, and the Axioms sounded better to me. Because of the dual drivers, the M22's produced more bass, which gave them a more full-range sound. As far as the upper ranges, they were pretty much the same; at least to my 'untrained ears'. Plus the M22's are $50 cheaper, and have a 30 day trial period.
I just wanted to share my experience with these speakers with everyone here, for what it's worth.
In the near future, I plan to upgrade to an NAD, Rotel etc. so that should make my M22's sound even better.
My CD player is an Integra CDC-3.1 ; a 6 cd, carousel. Is this a pretty good piece? Mid-fi, or low-end high-fi?
I would like to have a true high-end system one day, but it will be one piece at a time!

Thanks
Danny

Danny, I'm glad to hear that you're enjoying your M22s. My experience with them over the past 6 months is similar to yours; what a terrific buy!

However, you appear to have bought in to the "low-fi/mid-fi/high-end" line, which, frankly, is nonsense. Your 8511 is excellent and assuming, as is highly likely, that it has adequate power for your room and listening level,no audible improvement will result from "upgrading". Consider spending your money on something that really makes a difference, such as lots more CDs and/or DVDs.

Danny,

I completly agree with JohnK, The receiver you have is a good unit and Johnk is very correct in saying that you will not hear any difference from upgrading the receiver. You will have to spend a lot of money and I do mean a lot of money (not only receiver/seperates but also different speakers) I could take your M22's and play them on my receiver +$5k and you would not hear any differnce from the speakers then playing them on your so called low to mid range unit. Your unit is fine! Enjoy your system, buy lots of DVD's and CD's and don't worry about what you read. You would be wasting your money.

The internet is a really swell place to entertain differing opinions in a civilized fashion, ain't it? JohnK and John H, I don't believe I could disagree with you fellas more; different receivers and/or amps can have a signifigant effect on the sound you hear from the same pair of speakers. And it needn't cost you an arm and a leg.
My experience: my pair of Axiom M60s was originally paired with my three year-old Yamaha 795a receiver (85wpc x5, Dolby Digital, DTS, blah, blah, blah...), and I was initially quite pleased with the results, but after a couple of months, I began to wonder where the real "oomph" (y'know...the muscle!) in the sound was, given the capabilities of the M60s (I'm not too crazy about using my sub for music; prefer straight two-channel, that's just me). This past June, I purchased a used two-channel Parasound amp (HCA-1000A, 125 wpc) in a private sale for $450CDN to connect from the main left and right pre-outs of the Yamaha, and the improvement in the sound was immediately apparent; ah, there's the beef!! No sub needed here...Several weeks later, I bought, again in a private sale, an absolutely beautiful piece of vintage gear (used, natch). The unit is a Marantz 2285 receiver (here's a pic), circa 1977. Price was $315CDN, and the power rating is the same as the Yammie reciever (85wpc), but the 2285 stomps all over the Yammie, and in a most embarassing fashion. The 2285 has copious amounts of power and buckets of head-room, while the Yamaha is comparitively anemic to both the 2285 and the Parasound, so much so that I no longer use it for music at all; it's been demoted to HT use strictly (I'm using the Parasound to power the mains for HT use), and in this role, I remain fully satisfied with it.
The moral of my story, I suppose, is different strokes. If you dig the sound from your mid-line HT receiver, more power to you. If you're floored by the performance of your shiny new Denon flag-ship, knock yourself out. Since I don't have a spare five grand laying about for the latest top-of-the-line, I'll happily live with the really small inconvinience of having to swap banana plugs between my Marantz and my Yamaha connecting to my M60s, depending on the application.
Enjoy the music, gang, and cheers!

DS.

Hi Dave,

It is a great place to agree to disagree,
What you are saying is true to a point, but the M22's are not M-60s so it would be doutfull that he would get any appreciable difference by upgrading the current receiver without upgrading the speakers as well. While I cannot speak for Johnk, but that is my point for original question given he will continue to use the M22's as his main speakers.

I mostly agree with Dave on this one.

There are differences in the electronics, wire gauges, metal types, processor chips, etc. If you listen to two sources (receiver, cd player, or whatever) that are different enough in their configuration, audible differences are not difficult even for a novice listener.

Although i may not be able to hear a difference between very similar components like an Onkyo 797 and a Denon 4802 receiver, i sure can easily tell the difference between that Onkyo and my 10 year old Technics.

John,

I hear you loud and clear, mate, however I remain unconvinced that even the M22s wouldn't benefit from a small (or not so small) outboard amp. The M22s aren't exactly slouches; they're plenty sensitive, and can handle 200wpc, per Axiom's spec. But again I say, different strokes...
Cheers, John!

DS.

Hi Dave,

Very true, again I am admittedly not overly familiar with TX-8511 model, other then going to the Onkyo site and looking over the specs. Which from that it seems that it should do the job for a home stereo more then adequately, it is not an HT receiver so for that job I agree he would benefit from adding some external amps, but do you really feel that there would be an appreciable difference on the sound quality by upgrading the amp at this point for stereo purposes. I agree with Chesseroo comments that he can hear the difference from the 10 year old techniques unit. There have been a lot of advances in audio designs and DSP technology in the past 10 years so I would that you can, but looking at the Onkyo Web site this is not that old of a receiver, it is still current on the web site, and by the specs for stereo it should do the job very well.

I have tried the M22’s recently about 2 weeks ago when my sister bought a pair for her HT and I agree that they are no slouches, but when running them on the 3 different receivers that I have I could not hear any appreciable difference on these speakers from my Yamaha 995 to the Denon 3802 to my 5800. In the end I sold her my 3802 for her system. Am I missing something? What can you tell me about the 8511 that would make you feel that there would be a big benefit, and I am not meaning to go to an HT receiver from the stereo receiver.

Cheers, I look forward to the reply

Yes Dave, I think that this is one we'll simply have to agree to disagree on. Both my personal experience of quite a few years and my reading of technical research indicate that a watt delivered with essentially flat 20-20Khz response at inaudibly low distortion( which is easily achieved) is still a watt, regardless of the name of the manufacturer or the cost of the amplifier. Old equipment which may have deteriorated in performance( but measurably so)is another matter.

Most of us have probably read of the tests where the $200 receiver is paired against $2,000 plus equipment. The listeners at first describe the superiority they hear from the more expensive components in lavish detail. Then the listening becomes blind and the differences disappear along with the knowledge of what was playing.

To clarify my opinion (since my statement on the Onkyo vs. Technics was related to an age difference as the only affecting parameter) even new equipment from separate brands can be compared and differentiated by ear. Not all the blind tests that are performed result in 100% of people incapable of distinguishing differences between equipment.
Take for example 2 cd players, both brand new, one sporting a 192khz Motorola DAC and the other with a Sony 96khz DAC and do the blind test. Then sample a group of people listening to the Denon 4802 and an Onkyo 797.
I would wager that a larger proportion of listeners would distinguish the 2 cd players but not the receivers.

We simply cannot deny that changing the equipment could make a difference, however that change may not necessarily be an 'upgrade'.