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line conditioners?
#60706 09/13/04 10:47 PM
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Any experience or product knowledge that anyone might want to pass along? I live in an apartment with a 65" TV and future Axioms and Pioneer receiver. Right now I get a mexican radio station bleeding over into my TV speakers and computer speakers....

Also, I run DVD, CD, Xbox and digital cable through my system....but my cable does NOT run through my current Monster Power strip.


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Re: line conditioners?
#60707 09/13/04 10:52 PM
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Are you sure it's not your neighbor?

Re: line conditioners?
#60708 09/13/04 11:03 PM
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It might be, but i think its from my cable line. When i move my powered sub (home and computer) it gets better/worse...


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Re: line conditioners?
#60709 09/14/04 12:17 AM
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Panamax makes nice conditioners.


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Re: line conditioners?
#60710 09/14/04 03:58 PM
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I have a question...I just completed wiring my basement and all of my AV stuff is on a seperate line and circuit breaker, is it still advisable to look at one of those conditioners? I have heard they can help improve the sound quality and interferance. I was planning on getting a good surge suppressor, but maybe I should look at one of these?

Randy



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Re: line conditioners?
#60711 09/14/04 04:17 PM
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I took a gander at the Monster Powerbar 1100 MKII. Looks much beefier than the little 6 year old monster powerstrip im using....ive heard good reviews on the newer MKII stuff around the net. HMMM....


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Re: line conditioners?
#60712 09/14/04 04:36 PM
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I doubt that it would improve sound, but if it made you feel better protection-wise, do it. Other than that.... no.


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Re: line conditioners?
#60713 09/14/04 04:48 PM
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I have a Panamax 4300 surge protector/line conditioner. I don't think it makes any difference for power conditioning but running the off air antenna through it made a significant improvement in television reception.


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Re: line conditioners?
#60714 09/15/04 03:26 PM
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I went over and demo'd Steve's nice little Axiom/SVS setup yesterday. I was just sitting in awe. Open Range is a must demo for any setup and DTS rules! Side note, his Panamax line condition seemed to do a very good job!


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Re: line conditioners?
#60715 09/15/04 03:29 PM
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md55...i have quesion about running the cable through the conditioner. I currently dont do it because i run component cables from my digital cable box to the TV. When I ran the cable through the surge protector before the cable box, I only got blue screen. Any suggestions?


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Re: line conditioners?
#60716 09/15/04 03:35 PM
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My only suggestion would be to contact Panamax with this question. It seems like there may be something we don't know in the mix.


Mark
Re: line conditioners?
#60717 09/15/04 04:29 PM
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Whatever you hook the cable up to needs to be rated for the frequencies you're running through it. For "digital" cable systems, at least 1GHz. I use a separate coax surge suppresser that APC makes because I found that the ones on the cheaper terminal strips introduced noise. Haven't tried a panamax...

Bruce

Re: line conditioners?
#60718 09/15/04 04:58 PM
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Im comparing the Monster Cable HTS3600 vs Panamax MAX5300... So far, the ANT/Cable input ratings are 50-950MHZ vs SAT of 950-2.2GHZ. So, I guess I need to get one that has a Sat input and use that for the higher rating.


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Re: line conditioners?
#60719 09/15/04 09:10 PM
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Anyone using Digital Cable through a surge/line conditioner??


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Re: line conditioners?
#60720 09/15/04 09:16 PM
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I have the Panamax 5300. It works great with my HD Dish Network system. Also, these units will quiet noisy components like my rptv.


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Re: line conditioners?
#60721 09/16/04 12:15 AM
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I am using it through a Monster HTS 5100. It was a bit pricey, but I figure my wide screen, and surround set up is a lot more expensive. I noticed right away that the video was a bit sharper and brighter. It also gives me constant 120v and has a monitor to show the voltage coming in. I notice the input can go from 112v to 125v depending on the time of day.

By the way, I had my M60's on layaway and they shipped today. Oh what a feeling!


Last edited by mjwilli; 09/16/04 12:16 AM.

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Re: line conditioners?
#60722 09/16/04 12:24 AM
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The 5100 is a nice unit but it will not give a constant 120V as it is only a line conditioner.You would need something like the Monster AVS 2000 which is a voltage stabilizer for a constant 120V.


Rick


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Re: line conditioners?
#60723 09/16/04 02:19 PM
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True, Wid. Im thinking the Panamax 5100 or 5300 will work fine for me. I have found tons of reviews that the Monsters tend to limit the receiver/amps


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Re: line conditioners?
#60724 09/16/04 09:08 PM
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I called Monster about that issue with the HTS 2500Mk2 and they told me that it does not limit the current to the amp.


Rick


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Re: line conditioners?
#60725 09/16/04 09:26 PM
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Of course they did! Well, my ears are the test and the Panamax 5300 sounded awesome at reference levels on Axioms and SVS sub. I think Ill give the 5100 a try


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Re: line conditioners?
#60726 09/16/04 09:35 PM
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I can only say what I was told.I hear no difference when plugging my amp(Rotel RB1080) into the 2500 or directly into the wall.I am also using 2 dedicated 20 Amp hospital grade outlets with them connected to their own 20amp breaker.So I do believe I was told the truth.


Rick


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Re: line conditioners?
#60727 09/16/04 09:54 PM
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First: a quick introduction - hi, I'm the debunker of myths, I've been away on a quest for a while, but I'm back. Ever seen Noel Lee (Monster Cables CEO) suddenly get a pee-shiver or audiotweaks.com suddenly go dim on your screen? - that's me.

Why precisely would one use hospital grade outlets for a HT setup?

Green dot outlets serve one purpose over and above the outlets you get at Home Depot/Revy/Rona/etc. - the one difference in manufacture is the grip strength. The only reason to use them in a home environment is if you have plugs routinely jumping out of outlets. The boutique types would have you believe you get better power through them... the boutique types must also live beside power stations, I can tell you from experience, that last 100 feet of wire between your breaker panel and outlet make a minimal difference in the quality of power you receive from the station 15km away.

Another laughable item (that the HT whizkids love) is the orange triangle outlet - it's a regular outlet, but it's marked for isolated ground. We've got them in the arena audio booth - it's just a way of denoting that the wiring to the plug is isolated from building ground so as to keep, say, the ice plant's huge motors from spitting EMI into our equipment. The plug itself has no magical properties, unless orange paint is magical.

Just FYI, so you can save yourself a few bucks next time.

Bren R.

Re: line conditioners?
#60728 09/16/04 10:22 PM
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Hey Bren,

Nice to see ya back.Never once did I think an outlet or a line conditioner for that matter makes ones sound system sound any better.As far as the outlets go there is no other reason for using them other than I just wanted to.I already knew the differences in the outlets but thanks anyway.The line conditioner is there just as a surge protecter as I don't believe they improve the sound,but it is a simple solution to not having enough outlets at hand.

Look forward to reading your posts





Rick


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Re: line conditioners?
#60729 09/16/04 11:48 PM
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Bren,
In your professional opinion, would adding a Panamax 5100 surge protector/line conditioner be a worthwhile investment for a home theater set up consisting of Axiom/Hsu/Yamaha?Hitachi, et al?
b.

Re: line conditioners?
#60730 09/17/04 03:22 AM
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Your right about the constant 120v. I was reading the AVS 2000 specs, and that stuck in my mind for some reason. In regard to music sounding better, I did not notice anything significant. I may play with that when the wife goes out. The video was better in my opinon.


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Re: line conditioners?
#60731 09/17/04 01:03 PM
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Hey Bob, Im thinking about the same Panamax for my setup. Ive heard the 5300 on Axioms and SVS sub....sound AWESOME


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Re: line conditioners?
#60732 09/17/04 05:37 PM
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In reply to:

would adding a Panamax 5100 surge protector/line conditioner be a worthwhile investment for a home theater set up



First, what do you want it for? Surge protection is a good idea if you're in an area with bad power or prone to lightning strikes. If you're looking for AC boost/buck, it would probably help there too - but I couldn't find any info on the model you asked about on their website (MSRP, and technical specs). I was concerned by one thing they mentioned in a few pieces of their product lit - something about "adjusting line voltage without batteries"... umm, how do they boost then? huge capacitors?

I take my cues from the pro world. Our backup system is a gasoline gennie with battery operated UPSes on my DDR and Chyron (both PC-based) they're there to pull out the split-second sag when the power is shunted - all the other equipment hums happily along on generator power. Again, if it's good enough for a pair of $30K VTRs, it should be good for a $1K home theatre receiver.

In short, if you want it, buy it... but look past the hype, a UPS will do the same thing for you for probably a lot less money (except for the line conditioning aspect which is usually sketchy at best on consumer electronics, it's line conditioning, not power conditioning most times)

Bren R.

Re: line conditioners?
#60733 09/17/04 06:45 PM
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So, what your saying is, a power surge protecting UPS would be a great way to go when the demand is high from an amp or receiver??


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Re: line conditioners?
#60734 09/17/04 08:00 PM
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In reply to:

So, what your saying is, a power surge protecting UPS would be a great way to go when the demand is high from an amp or receiver??



Can you explain further? Sounds like you're worried about the current draw from your amp being too much for the house AC... if that's true, it's an engineering problem with either the amp or house wiring.

I was assuming the discussion was on power conditioning and brownout/spike protection.

A line conditioner is a pretty broad term. A true line conditioner smoothes out small fluctuations in the AC line, usually through an electromagnetic coil (technical term is a toroidal something or other). There's no regulation on the term so it can mean pretty much whatever the marketing department wants.

A power conditioner strips out the AC sine wave and recreates it at a clean 60Hz. These are really expensive and do a good job of extending the life of transformers in electrical equipment (especially computer power supplies, which are notoriously inexpensively made). Again, most line conditioners call themselves power conditioners incorrectly.

As for voltage boost/buck:
Bucking high voltage involves having some metal oxide varistors (MOVs) connected between the hot and ground lines. The resistance of these MOVs is near infinite at 120v (keeping hot and ground separate) but with increased voltage, the resistance drops and power is allowed to shunt from the hot wire to ground causing a drop in voltage on the hot wire down to ~120v - the excess voltage is carried away on the ground wire. I believe some systems also use some kind of sacrificial material (besides the damage that spikes cause the MOVs) to take up the extra voltage.
Boosting low voltage is easiest with a battery system - when voltage drops below a prescribed amount, a power inverter kicks in to supply AC voltage from a DC battery.

Bren R.

Re: line conditioners?
#60735 09/18/04 06:48 AM
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I also spent a couple of secs hunting down this old Penny Arcade strip... took a while to find it:



Re: line conditioners?
#60736 09/18/04 02:46 PM
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LOL, that is pretty good



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Re: line conditioners?
#60737 09/24/04 06:05 PM
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Just to revive the quesion...anyone using Digital Cable through a surge protector/line conditioner? I have tons of "bleed" into my TV speakers. I have to mute the speakers and listen to everything through the receiver...the music also bleeds over into my computer speakers in a different room.


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Re: line conditioners?
#60738 09/24/04 07:22 PM
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That's bizarre. I wouldn't think it's the digital cable line.. the TV and computer speakers wouldn't know how to decode it. I'd be looking at a different cable or possibly the reciever.


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Re: line conditioners?
#60739 09/24/04 08:09 PM
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right now, i dont run my cable line through anything but the digital box. Time warner was out today to fix my modem problems but i havent tried anything yet, sound wise. Ive had my receiver 5 years...never had this problem.


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Re: line conditioners?
#60740 09/24/04 08:12 PM
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Maybe it's the box. Seriously, there's no way leakage from the cable could be doing this. You'd get static (maybe), but not a real audio signal.


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