Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo A/B testing with a sub (NEW M60s !!)

OK, trolling for ideas here. Bought a pair of M2i's about a month ago and liked them so much I tossed out my old stereo speakers, added a sub, and hooked the DVD player up to the receiver. Enjoying the combination immensely, both for music and DVDs.

Even after a couple of weeks of tweaking, however, I still find the M2s seem to image exquisitely with the sub switched off and only "pretty good" with the sub switched on. Could be the placebos again, of course, trying to quit. Right now I have the sub hooked in between pre-out and main-in on the HK3270 receiver which improved the sound at medium volumes (by trimming bass out of the mains) but seemed to make the imaging a bit worse.

I weakened and ordered a pair of M60s, which came in today. The obvious first step is to disconnect everything, plug the m60s in and go nuts listening to all my CDs again, but I wouldn't mind doing a bit of A/B testing between (M2+sub) vs. (M60) or (M60+sub). The problem, of course, is that the M2s and M60s will probably need different cutoff freqs and sub levels.

I think the only option is to take the sub's crossover out of the loop, connect the sub back to "sub out" on the receiver, hook both speakers up then A/B while fiddling with sub settings between A and B.

1. Does anyone know how the "sub out" jacks on an HK3270 receiver are wired ? Any crossover, for example ?

2. Are the sub-out jacks active for both A and B speakers (I'll try this) ? If so, that probably makes for some interesting listening in the A room if your B speakers are on another floor...

3. Are there any obvious tricks I'm missing re: changing sub settings between M2 and M60 ? I think I'm gonna have to fiddle the controls each time, just hoping I'm missing something obvious.

If anyone has any "M2 vs M60" questions (why in the world would anyone have M2 vs M60 questions ??) fire away...

Thanks,
JB

I am utterly, regrettably unable to help you. Sorry.

But I eagerly await your report!

Have fun!

Bridgman,

I pretty certain your reciever does not employ a crossover for the sub.You will have to use the crossover on the sub.A freind of mine has the HK 3480 and I know his does not have a crossover.

So how did you like the sound of the M60's?

The sub out is full range, so you will need to use the crossover on the sub to do the blending.

Actually, while you are on line could I ask you an unrelated question. On the "Bose guy" thread you mentioned that HK and Denon had decent entry level receivers under $300. I'm in Canada so $$ are obviously a bit higher, but I'm seeing prices like $700 CDN for an HK 130, which AFAIK is the entry level AV receiver -- ie more like $550 US than $300.

Any suggestions re: models I should be searching for ? Right now I'm essentially searching on "cheap 5.1 receivers in Canada from highly regarded manufacturers" without a whole lot of success

>>So how did you like the sound of the M60's?

Still trying to haul them into the basement without tripping over the dogs. I locked them up and made it to the top of the stairs when they broke jail. My NEXT dogs are going to be some "dumb but lovable" breed, not sure I like having dogs that are smarter than I am

Wow.
Finally some fun audio posts. I only had to browse past 5 OT posts for this.

bridgman
It appears that the H/K unit may lack any internal crossover setting. There is nothing in the rather short manual describing any settings for changing your main speakers from large to small, thus engaging a crossover from the receiver.
My guess is that the subwoofer out channel on the H/K only sends a signal to the sub and hence, you need to match up the natural rolloff of your main speakers using the subwoofer crossover knob.
I do this now with my M60s and i prefer it that way. However my receiver does not allow for a change in its crossover and i'm stuck at 80Hz if i use it. Some of the newer receivers do allow for a range of settings within their setup menus.

Anyway, as for question 2, the A & B sub outs are probably active when either the A or B speaker channel is selected, but otherwise they are not likely to be active simultaneously. If you have a 'zone 2' design for the receiver, then you would need 2 separate subs for each zone. I don't believe your receiver is capable of this though. If you can select both the Speaker A and B set at the same time, then i would imagine the sub out channels would both be active and both produce the same signal.

Question 3, if you do not have a crossover in your receiver, then you will need to find 2 separate points to blend your sub with both the M2s and the M60s. Personally i have my EP350 cross set around 50hz which seems to match well with the M60s. You will have to experiment to find a point that works with the M2s.

I've auditioned both the M22s and the M60s, oh, about 2 years ago. I'm assuming the M2s will sound like a smaller version of the M22s but please, post your thoughts when you are done.

hehehehe.....I can't answer your questions because I'm on the same boat. The M2i sounds great, but that lead me to believe the M22ti will sound even better and louder with the additional 5.25" driver. They just shipped me a pair of M22ti today and I should receive them on this Friday, can't wait!!

John, as previous replies have indicated, the "sub-out" on your 3270 is merely a duplicate pair of stereo pre-outs and has no crossover or any other type of bass management on it. Therefore you have to rely on the provisions of your 6i for bass management. Although you speak at one point of taking its crossover "out of the loop", you can't do that unless you want the sub to run full range up to 200Hz or so. Since the 6i has a 12dB/octave 80Hz highpass on the line level outputs, this should be ideal for both the M2s and M60s(no change is possible even if you wanted it, it's a fixed 80Hz)and allows the 6i to handle what it does better than even the M60 with its good low bass. As far as the crossover control on the 6i, it should be set identically for both the M2 and M60 to match the 80Hz highpass crossover. Note that this might not mean a 80Hz setting on the control, since such settings on subs are notoriously inaccurate(although Nousaine's 6i test which I previously linked for you implies that the crossover control is more accurate than most)and might call for experimentation in the 60-100Hz area. The sub level setting might be slightly lower for the M60s since their rolled off response below 80Hz will be stronger than that of the M2s.

As for comparisons, sure the M2 plus sub vs M60 with or without sub which you mentioned would be interesting.